Author Topic: Decline?  (Read 33637 times)

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Offline Catalyst

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Decline?
« on: January 28, 2010, 08:13:20 AM »
After our launch I was talking to Daz and the guys about what the problem was, why we didn't get the 350 through the door that we had hoped for.  As usual Daz offered intelligent answers and as usual Big Mac just gibbered a bunch of nonsense.  But something he said stuck with me.  He said:

"Look at the scene recently, man.  Nobody much is coming to local gigs at the moment.  12 Months ago there was a thriving scene, but the bigger bands, the exciting ones to watch have gone into recession a bit.  Voyager have gone quiet, Malignant Monster have had months of silence while Cain was away, Grotesque has had to rebuild after Taz, WE have been quieter than usual while prepping for the CD launch, Wardaemonic have been awol, Psychonaut have gonna underground to record.... " he had a longer list but I forget the details.  He went on:
"With these bands silent or close to, and no new band emerging to grab the scene and shake it out of its como, the second tier bands are doing more gigs and though they are trying, they just don't know how to put on a really great show.  So people aren't showing up because they don't care enough."

Maybe there is some truth in what he is saying.  In amongst the bands stepping up, there are those who are ready to be bigger bands.  Claim the Throne and Lacrymae are two such bands and good on them, but their sounds are unusual and are targetted at rather obsure musical demographics, even within the already obscure metal scene.  Music like Viking-inspired Ale drinkin' music and opera metal are going to be an acquired taste no matter what, no offence intended of course.  It is like we are spoiled for choice in this state and fighting for the same circle of punters.  But I have a another theory.  The state of world music is undergoing a metamorphisis, as record companies are no longer making millions off CD sales and so are sending their labelled bands in a constant touring loop around the world.  Bands who would never tour Perth have been here, and the more that come chasing our bucks, the more WILL come.  So the local gigs are up against the international gigs in the same venues, and the polished professionalism of these bands is making the gap between the bands that much wider.

I would like to hear some other opinions on this.

I have seen the scene rise and fall over the years, there have been times when the local metal scene has been largely ignored and times when it is busy as hell, but right now I believe we are at a crossroads.  If local bands are going to compete in this new metal environment they are going to have to step up on a massive scale, or they will fall by the wayside.  

I have ideas as to what we can do to revitalise our beloved Metal scene, but nothing concrete.  That is a job for higher mammals than me.  I would like to hear the thought of some of them.    


« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 08:14:52 AM by Catalyst »

Offline Merlok

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2010, 09:21:52 AM »

 :o i heard a similar rant from some other people recently!

i personlly try to go to as many gig when im in perth as i can, but people to go with are dwindlng in supply so i tend to go by myself

 

Offline DreadLine

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2010, 09:59:19 AM »
I think u may be onto something, I think Perth is metamorphosizing, along with the rest of the world, away from the big label mentality to a state of greater independance, with many having thier own studios, doing thier own promotion etc. But, as far as punters go I think we are all fighting over the same 500 or so, that as the government makes venues scan people and licenes, cracks down on drunkeness coming out of venues, Drugs, drink driving, hoons, roudyness etc. With metal heads being a target because of our appearances, I think more and more punters are staying home to have beers and listening to thier fav metal...            Just my 2 cents. 

Offline Senton

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2010, 10:05:35 AM »
Its probably the timing man.

From what I can tell, the gig was first announced/posted up on the 27th December, so obviously theres Xmas and New Years to get people distracted. Thats gonna affect the amount of people who are aware of the gig regardless of how much you promote it. Plus with the 'Straya day public holiday just after, thats another factor.

You have to admit Neverborns music is also 'unusual' . Its complex and aggressive with a lot of layers going on there. Also, and no offence as this is all just how i see it and constructive criticism, but perhaps people/randoms arent too familiar with you guys still.

Neverborn are one of the hardest working metal bands Ive seen as far as 'stage production' and trying to put on a show with the props etc, but Ive NEVER seen a Neverborn cd or Tshirt in 78's, Dadas or Planet. This is important for you guys (and ANY bands). You have tracks on compilations with links back to your myspace, and you have some links there but PROMOTE THAT! Get people to know about it.

Also, occasionally maybe you undo your hard work with some forum 'tit for tat'. If you take some of Perth metals 'bigger name' bands, very rarely do they get in online rants/arguments. Im not saying you shouldnt be on, but you are representing your band pretty much on here.

But thats just my 2c, the cd sounds great, and the artwork is pretty great too. Keep at it guys and dont get disheartened :)
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Offline nihilist

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2010, 10:25:25 AM »
I am wondering why you expected to get 350 people when international bands have attracted less.

For once this isn't even a sarcastic dig, just seems strange to have budgeted for that many.
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Offline venismecha

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2010, 11:34:25 AM »
i think Daz's explanation is right, at least in my case. I haven't seen a line-up that's truly grabbed my attention in ages.

I'm keen for the Brutal Fisting gig coming up, because I can look at the bill in its entirety and see more than one band I think would be worth seeing, but lately it's been one "okay" or "decent" band, and a hell of a lot of random other stuff I consider "filler".

It's hard to get it together to go out just to wait for one local band that I like to come on. I'm all for having a drink or 3 while I wait, but mannnnnnn with gigs these days, it'd be a hell of a drink break.

My exception is Maxi P. If they play, and every other band is shit, I will still be there.
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Offline Ormsby_Guitars

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2010, 11:58:05 AM »
Global Financial Crisis = less money for "fun" or hobby activities. Ive noticed less people wanting to purchase small items/repairs/mods through work, but the big sales are still strong. Those with jobs are carrying on like normal. One section of the community are tightening belts though.

More international gigs = more people saving for those events, bypassing local gigs

Interest rates = less money for "fun" or hobby activities

Castle (which is where a LOT more metal gigs are now) is just a shitty venue. A lot of people just dont want to go there regardless of band.

Promo - ok, so i havent been to as many 'metal' gigs in the last year either, but i dont see the same level of promo from the bands any more. I cant remember the last time i got given a flyer. I dont see as many posters around town. It seems to be all facebook these days. That works, but its ONE avenue.

Marketting your band/business/whatever is a constantly evolving process. You need to change with the times, or you get left behind.
 

Offline Catalyst

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2010, 12:21:42 PM »
Its probably the timing man.
Yeah sure.  But I am not willing to sit back and accept that without looking deeper.  If it was just our launch I would think that we just thought we were more popular that we are, but Enforce and Gallows are two sucessful local bands in their own rights too and they were also suprised at the sufficient but not spectactular turnout.   I am hearing similar comments from plenty of other bands and punters too.   Hence this topic. 

Quote
You have to admit Neverborns music is also 'unusual' . Its complex and aggressive with a lot of layers going on there. Also, and no offence as this is all just how i see it and constructive criticism, but perhaps people/randoms arent too familiar with you guys still.
Neverborn are one of the hardest working metal bands Ive seen as far as 'stage production' and trying to put on a show with the props etc, but Ive NEVER seen a Neverborn cd or Tshirt in 78's, Dadas or Planet. This is important for you guys (and ANY bands). You have tracks on compilations with links back to your myspace, and you have some links there but PROMOTE THAT! Get people to know about it.
That's some useful feedback man, appreciate it.  We are aware of the shortfall in merch and cybespace promotion.  This CD is the first one that has been barcoded so the first we can put in shops.  But this is more than just about us guys, I have noticed a real drop off in attendance of almost all local metal gigs, just tyrying to put my finger on the answer.  Which is hard since I am not sure of the question.   
I am wondering why you expected to get 350 people when international bands have attracted less.  For once this isn't even a sarcastic dig, just seems strange to have budgeted for that many.
Yeah.  We didn't budget, just hoped.   It WAS naive to think that we could pull the numbers, but we chose bands from across the metal genre spectrum and it should have been better.  I guess we had unfounded belief in ourselves, but again this is not just about US, it is about the general scene and how the other bands are feeling about it.     

Offline cyanide_christ

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2010, 12:23:40 PM »
Global Financial Crisis = less money for "fun" or hobby activities. Ive noticed less people wanting to purchase small items/repairs/mods through work, but the big sales are still strong. Those with jobs are carrying on like normal. One section of the community are tightening belts though.

More international gigs = more people saving for those events, bypassing local gigs

Interest rates = less money for "fun" or hobby activities

Castle (which is where a LOT more metal gigs are now) is just a shitty venue. A lot of people just dont want to go there regardless of band.

Promo - ok, so i havent been to as many 'metal' gigs in the last year either, but i dont see the same level of promo from the bands any more. I cant remember the last time i got given a flyer. I dont see as many posters around town. It seems to be all facebook these days. That works, but its ONE avenue.

Marketting your band/business/whatever is a constantly evolving process. You need to change with the times, or you get left behind.
 


Global financial crisis? Interest rates? You make it sound like metal fans are normal members of society!

Offline Merlok

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2010, 12:45:32 PM »

we all pretend to be normal members of society to pass through the crowds unnoticed like a metal head ninja!

i find my mates are saying more and more its the money, given the rediculous beer prices (how ever necessary they are) and taxi fares to far off places and no garrantee of a good sound, means they'd rather get a bottle and battle it out on rock band on the wii!

for me if there are certain bands playing;enforce, claim the throne, pathogen, noctis, etc the money is no issue cuz i freakin love local metal, but the prices of int. band are starting to get a bit steep, ala the D666 fiasco with JSR (although i firmly blame JSR for that fuk up)

i have to admit ive only heard of Neverborn in the last 18 months and im pissed i missed the launch! but perhaps wat is needed is more metal influenced events just not gigs.can be under the WF banner or wat ever just something that strengthens the community as a whole, introduces everyone to everyone else, and in turn through word of mouth gigs are promoted and attendance may rise. ive often thought some events needed a metal flavour to them..pool halls for example shit me to tears with their mtv emo crap musik playing, mebe rent out a hall and play some good tunes. underground movies is a nother one, ie metal documentries etc to ge screened at i unno astor.

anyway just my 2 cents.


also i always wanted to start a metal religion, "Metalology" get registed as a non profit organization, so when u have gigs they become "sermons" and become a tax right off  :laugh:

Offline cyanide_christ

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2010, 01:52:52 PM »
I'd say lack of central venues is a huge issue. I can't see any other reason why gigs at amplifier can consistently pull 400 people regardless of lineup, while at any other venue in Perth, you'd be very lucky to see 200 people through the door. To me this suggests that people aren't willing to go to gigs that are not in the city and close to the train station. It's probably fair to say that amplifier gigs get more promo, but I still think a gig at amps with virtually no promo will still attract more people than a gig at the Charles or Rosemount with all the promo in the world, and that's not taking into account the death disco crew that rock up early to avoid the lines. Also, the lack of metal gigs at amps due to the venue's extreme popularity among other scenes is obviously not very conducive to maintaining a scene. Lack of gigs at decent venues = reduction of interest from punters.

Given my personal situation, I'm in no position to rag on people who don't go to gigs cause I've been to fuck all over the last couple of years other than the ones I'm playing at. However, before I decided to commit myself to 3 years of being a poor cunt, I was a regular at most gigs at most venues and was more than happy to taxi it in and taxi it home while still having plenty of beverages. It therefore seems a bit strange to me that so few people these days are as keen to get out and see bands as I and many others once were several years ago.

Offline DreadLine

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2010, 02:28:01 PM »
I think ur answer to that again is the rising cost factor of everything over the last few years. And the average wage has not gone up to compensate.

Offline chancellorisgod

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2010, 02:59:12 PM »
I think ur answer to that again is the rising cost factor of everything over the last few years. And the average wage has not gone up to compensate.

I'm tempted to agree with you there - Villa was a perfect example the other night... Local STUBBIES were $8.50 and imports were $9-10! Add to that the fact that they didn't have any beers on tap and it winds up being a very costly night if you feel like getting a bit pissy.

Cabs aren't getting any cheaper either - I paid for a maxi from Balga to the city a couple of months ago and it cost $48!!!

Offline BaileyHorizon

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2010, 03:37:52 PM »
Local STUBBIES were $8.50 and imports were $9-10! Add to that the fact that they didn't have any beers on tap and it winds up being a very costly night if you feel like getting a bit pissy.

Holy shit. :o

Offline Teeman

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2010, 03:40:23 PM »
also i always wanted to start a metal religion, "Metalology" get registed as a non profit organization, so when u have gigs they become "sermons" and become a tax right off  :laugh:

 :laugh: As metallurgists, i feel we should spear-head this new religion
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Offline Mago_Haydz

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2010, 03:43:20 PM »
its because I havent been on WF for ages. Sorry about that guys.
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Offline WarNick

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2010, 04:41:15 PM »
I reckon firstly, the venue. Like others have mentioned - pretty much regardless of who plays, you get big numbers at the amps for just about every gig. Heat or whatever it's called now - even though it's a big place and looks pretty good, isn't geographically blessed to be in an amongst Perth's hotspot for crowds and kebab stores and the like. So with that said, getting 200 people isn't too bad given you gave less than a months notice.

2nd, more and more performers AND punters seem to be developing a negative view of the castle. This kind of attitude spreads pretty easily and cripples attendances and in turn the metal scene over time, ultimately. Strange but true: The castle probably has a better sound than Heat seems to ever get. People turning their noses up at the place are no better than the scum that chooses to go to the Paramount every weekend. If metal and cheap beer is your fuel then really the Castle should be the holy land.

Offline old gregg

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2010, 05:09:11 PM »
Quote
its because I havent been on WF for ages. Sorry about that guys.


Yeah what the FUCK haydz.

Better have been busy writing stories!

Offline ecentrix

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2010, 05:27:05 PM »
For me i just lack motivation to go out and watch gigs due to my lack of interest in most of perths bands.

We need a bigger pool, of quality bands, the problem with this is there are a lot of "good" bands in the making as we speak, many of whom just aren't prepared to go on stage yet.

I can see your point and i do agree that perth and the global scene is changing a bit.

What Perth needs imo is a fresh breath of air, something that will make everybody excited/motivated to go out and see. With the bands that do currently do this in Perth being not as active as they were maybe a year ago as discussed above it doesn't help our cause as a scene.

I know my prog power band will join the likes of voyager and lacrymae when we are ready to jump on the stage, meaning that we are just going to be another niche band. So Perth may not really be our place, but we still enjoy what we do.

The same can be said for Labyrinth, black metal is always going to be an acquired taste also.

Perth does have a lot of talented musicians and alot of potential we just need a fresh of breath air to remind us of this. We have been reminded again and again by some of Perths top bands, all we need is time imo.

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Offline Merlok

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2010, 05:51:35 PM »
also i always wanted to start a metal religion, "Metalology" get registed as a non profit organization, so when u have gigs they become "sermons" and become a tax right off  :laugh:

 :laugh: As metallurgists, i feel we should spear-head this new religion

Ahem...im now a Project Metallurgist thank you very much!!!

but yes i feel it encompasses my 2 true loves...metallurgy and heavy metal

Offline Senton

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2010, 06:04:20 PM »
  This CD is the first one that has been barcoded so the first we can put in shops. 

You dont need a barcode  to put cds in 78s. dadas or Planet, just an ABN.
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Offline goatlady

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2010, 06:23:55 PM »
I think that the reasons for a decline in the number of people attending local shows are probably all those things you guys suggested and more. I think the answer is better promotion to reach more people, people who normally don't even think to go to local shows. Essentially if the old audiences are declining we need to find new ones.

I have a few ideas about how to do that - I run a web development business so I spend a lot of time helping my clients work that shit out too. More comprehensive online promotion just generally is one thing I think is needed - but that shit is an art, not everyone who is in a band should be expected to know how to do that. MySpace is good for bands but doesn't give you the tools you need to reach people easily where they spend their time - for that you need Facebook and (responsible, properly done) email marketing (and I'm not talking about a shitty email with no subject, everyone in the cc line and a jpeg attached - which I have actually received from promoters before - I'm talking about properly constructed templates, subscription options, regular schedules, etc).

But I also have this other crazy idea: in the suburbs, there are hundreds, nay thousands, of regular bogans just like us, many of whom don't realise that there's a local scene at all or if they do, they don't realise that it's really fucking top stuff, or they're too young to be involved. It would be a huge effort and would require organisation and co-operation, but imagine plastering every local IGA, supa valu, deli and bottle shop in the suburbs with local gig posters each and every week. Everyone eats... stick gig posters up in the same places where there are flyers advertising commodores for sale and lost dogs and brickies for hire and whatever.

It would need to be consistent... but imagine over time the band names/logos become familiar to people who've never even thought about going to a local show. You're building up the band's reputation with people who've never even seen them. And if even 10% of the people who take notice of the posters who hadn't before come to a show... that's a new audience that you're building there.

Having said that, $8 and $9 beers (and worse) annoy the shit out of me. That's just out and out greed by the venues, IMHO.

Offline Catalyst

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2010, 07:36:21 PM »
Fuck, there are some brilliant thought processes going on here.  Keep it up people.   

Offline SandBlastedSkin

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2010, 09:07:57 PM »


But I also have this other crazy idea: in the suburbs, there are hundreds, nay thousands, of regular bogans just like us, many of whom don't realise that there's a local scene at all or if they do, they don't realise that it's really fucking top stuff, or they're too young to be involved. It would be a huge effort and would require organisation and co-operation, but imagine plastering every local IGA, supa valu, deli and bottle shop in the suburbs with local gig posters each and every week. Everyone eats... stick gig posters up in the same places where there are flyers advertising commodores for sale and lost dogs and brickies for hire and whatever.



Now THAT is a fucking good idea. I think all the issues addressed in this thread so far play a role in what is happening to us the musos,promoters, metal fans etc. it seems there is enough of us peeps that give a shit and wanna see the day where people are getting wild and toppling over other people and having some good ol metal fun! There has been many times when i have been at international gigs and look around at all the punters and think "where the fuck do all these people come from and why arn't they at local gigs!"

I think venue support would go a looong way also.There are venues open to "allowing" local bands to play at their venue, but at what cost. Twice the restrictions, expensive piss, hiring costs and THEN they want you to fucking hire a P.A. I have no idea how but there must be some way to make hosting a metal show an attractive prospect for venues.At the end of the day i think we need more "live" venues not pubs/clubs that have a stage. The more competition in that regard i think will bring alot more activity and EXCITEMENT to perth metal.

I think a serious calloboration from this thread should be put together and maybe it can be put to some good use or strategy. For those who know me i have done a lot of live mixing around town, have hosted and promoted shows before and it aint an easy task. I would be happy to help out in anyway i can.

my 20 cents, keep the change.
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Offline ironguardian

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2010, 09:55:34 PM »
We need a bigger pool, of quality bands,

We have over 100 'metal' bands in Perth. Quality bands however, that's a different matter.

but imagine plastering every local IGA, supa valu, deli and bottle shop in the suburbs with local gig posters
I put a poster or two up for one of my gigs at a local IGA... and two people turned up, who had never been to a local gig before. This sort of stuff does work, but it takes a lot more effort. Before I meet some local bands and started to visit WF, I really had no idea that we even had any metal bands here in Perth.