Author Topic: Decline?  (Read 53067 times)

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Offline goatlady

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2010, 10:09:18 PM »
Quote
but imagine plastering every local IGA, supa valu, deli and bottle shop in the suburbs with local gig posters
I put a poster or two up for one of my gigs at a local IGA... and two people turned up, who had never been to a local gig before. This sort of stuff does work, but it takes a lot more effort. Before I meet some local bands and started to visit WF, I really had no idea that we even had any metal bands here in Perth.

To be successful, it would need to be an organised co-operative effort. Divide the map up, mark off the target locations, each participant claims a zone close to where they live or work. If black and white homeprinted A4 is ok (don't see why not), everyone uploads their gig flyers to a particular location, and every say Wednesday or Thursday each participant prints out a few of each of them and takes them down to their local locations. If everyone did three or four or five supermarkets or delis or whatever, it wouldn't take too long and there'd be pretty good coverage.

It would have to be co-operative - no "I don't like this band so I'm not gonna put up their poster" bullshit, but I reckon it could work. Hell, if someone wants to kick it off I'd be willing to do some footwork each week.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 10:19:41 PM by goatlady »

Offline Nosaj

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2010, 10:31:30 PM »
Another factor would be people going to the overseas metal fests in europe.
So what kind of Metal classification would You give to CuntScrape?

I would say Thush Metal.

Offline ironguardian

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2010, 10:51:34 PM »
If black and white homeprinted A4 is ok (don't see why not),

Even professionally, A4 b&w is no more than 10c a page. Printing fliers and posters isn't a problem, the trick is to make them effective, to get people to look at them AND turn up to the show.

I like the ideas of reaching out into the suburbs. Perhaps some suburban shows might be an idea too. The current crowd of regulars usually know what's on through word of mouth, and WF, so extra advertising to them is a waste. However, it's the metal heads who turn up to the international gigs which we never see again who we should be focusing on reaching.

Offline chancellorisgod

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2010, 11:03:27 PM »
If black and white homeprinted A4 is ok (don't see why not),

Even professionally, A4 b&w is no more than 10c a page. Printing fliers and posters isn't a problem, the trick is to make them effective, to get people to look at them AND turn up to the show.

I like the ideas of reaching out into the suburbs. Perhaps some suburban shows might be an idea too. The current crowd of regulars usually know what's on through word of mouth, and WF, so extra advertising to them is a waste. However, it's the metal heads who turn up to the international gigs which we never see again who we should be focusing on reaching.

Only issue is reaching these people isn't the problem, its changing their mentality of "local metal is fucking shit"... I see people handing out fliers all the time at international gigs and most meatheads walk halfway up the street and drop them on the ground  :no:

Offline Catalyst

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2010, 07:14:56 AM »
That'a why we gave out free CDs by the hundreds, to give them something they can actually listen to and decide for themselves.  And still no massive increase in numbers. 

Offline Damo

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2010, 08:18:55 AM »
Its not a metal problem, in fact not even an original music problem. I am seeing the same thing from my weekly cover gigs.

People dont have the money to be going out every weekend, and when they do, they arent drinking as much and generally not hanging around as long.
Many people work the day after now, having to take on extra work to pay the bills.

Ormsby raised a good point about the promotion being too one-dimensional these days, because of the ease of facebook, etc.

However, I have never believed that the entry fee would stop local people seeing a local show. WA has been one of the states least affected by the GFC, and when your friends claim the entry fee was too expensive, youve gotta concede that they probably werent going to come anyway, regardless of cost - Its just a convenient excuse. Those people that really want to be there will be there.

Offline Ormsby_Guitars

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2010, 08:36:58 AM »
That'a why we gave out free CDs by the hundreds, to give them something they can actually listen to and decide for themselves.  And still no massive increase in numbers. 

If they are walking up the street and dumping your flyers, what makes you think your CD gets any more attention? Because you've spent more money on it, they might make more of an effort to pay attention? You need to capture their interest first. Once you've got a bit of interest, you bring out the CD.

When was the last time (or... ever?) that a local band took 15 seconds out of their support slot with an international band, to say, not just "we are playing next weekend", but "hey guys, we have an awesome local scene. Its great to see all you guys, but you really need to check out the local scene. You're all metal heads, and every weekend there is a gig with some top rated bands, all for a tenth of the price of what you paid to be here for (insert international band name)". Whats that... seven seconds?




Offline whammy

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2010, 08:58:28 AM »
I agree with TnT, in so far as this type of thing being cyclical. I am sure for those who have been following the scene long enough can remember before Scourge, Voyager, Syzygy etc... came on (timeline might be wrong but..)  there would have been periods of quiet while the gig load was spread amongst fewer and less favouritre bands. I reckon it needs to build momentum and perhaps those standout bands of the new wave become the next big thing, pulling bigger crowds. Enough people are flooding the city anyway, so going to a light-on-the-wallet metal gig would not be the case...
Also, when the remaining titans get back out there, we might find more gigs at the amplifier again, like the good old times.
"Log off. That cookie shit makes me nervous!"

Offline Damo

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2010, 11:57:23 AM »
Also, keep in mind that the Amplifier really does have the cream of the crop when it comes to the bands they want to put on, and tend to allow the bigger boys to play and the less known bands get pushed aside. This would obviously be good for their numbers and the venue's popularity, but not necessarily a big help for newcomers to the scene.

Offline cdtBEAST

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2010, 01:25:12 PM »
1. If there is an international gig near yours, stand out front after & hand out flyers. Cain Cressall is the KING of this & I believe it makes all the difference in the end.

2. If you have an international support slot don't just give a shout out on stage, hand out flyers to your next gig after the show, out front. (unless the promoter of the show you just supported has a problem with that.)

3. Keep flyers in your car & in your pockets. How many times do you see a random metalhead @ a shopping centre, EASY target. If the flyer has the words "free giveaways/bar voucher on it it helps"

4. Put the words FREE GIVEAWAY etc in bold on the bottom of the flyer. Metalheads love FREE shit, esp beer.

5. Plan your promotion timing. Xmas, New Years, Aus day is great timing to catch up & hand shit around, as an opening round of promo early for a gig down the track.

6. Having a gig close to Xmas,  New Year, Aus day is a risky call. Even though Big Day out & Soundwave are not till after this, most people tend to buy there tix around this time. So with all this going on they are BROKE.

7. International bands will come around summer as this is the summer festival season.

8. POSTERS!!!!!

9. Here is an idea. Try get a grant for advertising on commercial t.v. If it fails who cares you are no worse off. If it passes WOOHOO. There are a few people within the scene who could shoot/ put together a shit hot advert.

10. Play your ass off @ EVERY show. We are now competing with the big international bands for ticket sales.
When a touring band blows you away ask yourself WHY?

11. Lighting, where possible get the lighting rig cranking. Many a time that is the difference between the touring band looking awesome & a local show looking lame.
I have seen plenty of opening bands play better & tighter than the touring act, yet the touring act comes across as better simply because of lighting. With touring acts the opening band gets restricted use of lighting & sound etc, this however seems to be forgotten @ many a local show.   

Offline DreadLine

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2010, 03:01:05 PM »
^--- Damn, good advice there man!! I wanna print that shit out and make it a poster for my wall!! :headbang:

Offline venismecha

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2010, 03:23:23 PM »
I love giveaways :D
fight like a girl club

Offline nihilist

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2010, 04:27:29 PM »
3. Keep flyers in your car & in your pockets. How many times do you see a random metalhead @ a shopping centre, EASY target. If the flyer has the words "free giveaways/bar voucher on it it helps"

This is how I ended up at my first gig, I got ambushed at Carousel when I was 17.
My hands are choking, my knife is broken.
An orgasm is what I need.
Your blood is spilling, the sight is thrilling.
To cum I need to see you bleed.

Offline WarNick

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2010, 06:59:35 PM »
Wow.. So it's been 2 years already?!

 ;D

Offline ironguardian

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2010, 07:06:58 PM »
2. If you have an international support slot don't just give a shout out on stage, hand out flyers to your next gig after the show, out front. (unless the promoter of the show you just supported has a problem with that.)

Most venues aren't keen about people handing out fliers to shows at other venues, as they too are competing for customers. If you hand them out outside the venue though, there shouldn't be any problems.

Offline nihilist

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2010, 08:05:13 PM »
Wow.. So it's been 2 years already?!

 ;D

I'm struggling to wrap my head around this one, what do you mean?
My hands are choking, my knife is broken.
An orgasm is what I need.
Your blood is spilling, the sight is thrilling.
To cum I need to see you bleed.

Offline Groove Junkie

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2010, 08:49:11 PM »
You need to have a shit hot live show some of the bands i have seen look like its a hassle/look almost like they going through the motions/or dont look they take it too seriously which is cool if you are doing it for shits and giggles but not if you want to go somewhere with your tunes. Even if you are playing to 6 people and the sound guy you have to blow them away thats one way of slowly building a fan base with the whole word of mouth "Holy shit you NEED to see X band ".

Offline Sins Of The Father

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2010, 11:08:45 PM »
Can anyone give insight to whether this is happening in the eastern states as well? Dysie if you read this have you heard anything from local promoters or even regular punters that you may be in contact with?

The times they are a changing...

A lot of the draw cards are sorting out line-up changes and rehearsing new members, recording ect, there are a a lot of band still worth supporting though.
Those draw cards started off in the same positions, there's no limit to what a band can do if they put a lot of effort in behind the scenes,
I just think that in this present time with all the economic bullshit and things moving so fast that its getting harder to be able to be there to support them, transportation, drinks $$, no smoking almost anywhere, the law on DD, and also being so many gigs to choose from.
A lot of the times everyone will go to a gig even if they don't support any of the bands, its juts cause the booze flows cheaper, its easy to get to and at least a couple mates are there supporting at least one band on the bill.

I think if there were a couple different, consistent venues in the same proximity as amps(city side) and rocket room(bridge side) catering more for the rock/metal crowd, Ala rocket room with ...more room and a better stage and better air conditioning than things would be a bit easier.

If Devillles was next to Carnegie's and did metal gigs it would be a smash..providing bit bigger stage and better sound. Its like someone made hell into a nightclub, a swinging 50's/60's hell nightclub kinda thing.

Black Betty's is only other bigger rock option besides rocket and castle, and lets face it its still pretty commercial and not a lot of metal heads would step foot there, not to mention I'm sure they aren't too keen on hosting local metal gigs more often.

I know there is the castle and its a more than adequate venue for that kind of thing but a large proportion of people will no go out of their way if its not flashing right up in their faces across the road from the traino. Hence the rocket room being around for so long and to a certain extent amps, which in another way of being forced into peoples sinuses is it's very well advertised as being the place to be.

For anyone who was around from the earliest days of the modern metal scene (lets say 1992-present)
How many venue's did you have to choose from?
How much promotion did you see from bands? (flyers, posters ect ect)
How consistent were gigs?
How many band's were there at its peak?

I think if everyone keeps contributing and adding their 2 cents, ideas, brainstorms, drunken/stoned rants then maybe bands will come across some very valuable info and start to add to the scene from a different perspective.

Perhaps once again things are going into a hibernation phase where everyone has kinda grown up a little and has some life shit to sort out and then once people settle it will thrive again with renewed energy.
And hopefully a new generation will come along with it such as it has the past few years.

God this is like Milo and Otis kinda shit.










Offline ChuckBilly

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2010, 11:32:25 PM »
Too many gigs. Not enough people. Bad Venues. High cost of beer.
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Offline Catalyst

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2010, 08:20:24 AM »
1. If there is an international gig near yours, stand out front after & hand out flyers. Cain Cressall is the KING of this & I believe it makes all the difference in the end. 2. If you have an international support slot don't just give a shout out on stage, hand out flyers to your next gig after the show, out front. (unless the promoter of the show you just supported has a problem with that.)
Yep, we have been, and trying different kinds of marketting, like the free CDs.

Quote
3. Keep flyers in your car & in your pockets. How many times do you see a random metalhead @ a shopping centre, EASY target.
I do that.  I never go shopping without a handful of promo stuff.

Quote
If the flyer has the words "free giveaways/bar voucher on it it helps. Put the words FREE GIVEAWAY etc in bold on the bottom of the flyer. Metalheads love FREE shit, esp beer.
Great idea, that one never occured to me.

 
Quote
Plan your promotion timing. Xmas, New Years, Aus day is great timing to catch up & hand shit around, as an opening round of promo early for a gig down the track.  6. Having a gig close to Xmas,  New Year, Aus day is a risky call. Even though Big Day out & Soundwave are not till after this, most people tend to buy there tix around this time. So with all this going on they are BROKE.
  Yeah.  We knew that might be a factor, but having a launch crammed between two international supports seemed to be the ultimate in building momentum. 

Quote
10. Play your ass off @ EVERY show. We are now competing with the big international bands for ticket sales.
When a touring band blows you away ask yourself WHY?   Lighting, where possible get the lighting rig cranking. Many a time that is the difference between the touring band looking awesome & a local show looking lame.
I have seen plenty of opening bands play better & tighter than the touring act, yet the touring act comes across as better simply because of lighting. With touring acts the opening band gets restricted use of lighting & sound etc, this however seems to be forgotten @ many a local show.
We try to go off every gig, plus do the stage props and stuff for big events.  We also paid a bit extra for the lighting in that place, and in truth had him save a couple of the effects for us, as last band on.   


It feels to me that we are doing almost everything we can at the moment.  What about other bands?  What are they doing to help promote themselves and the scene?


Offline Trolld

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2010, 12:39:22 PM »
I think we're all forgetting one undeniable factor here.. and this is gonna sound stupid, but when you really sit back and think about it its so true.

WOMEN

They are the crucial factor for filling venues.

Dont believe me... walk past the lineup at Paramount perfect example have a look at the male:female ratio.
Next time you go to Amps, when you walk down the alley way on the way home have a look.

Then when you walk into a metal gig tonight have a look... about 90% of the time its a sausage fest.
More must be done to attract chicks, dunno how, but if the ratio can be improved somehow, blokes will suddenly find enough money to go to gigs and they will forego that extra slab of beer and the $50 bag, and beer prices will be secondary in thought if theres the possibility of tappin some tail.

It must be tough to be a single guy at a metal gig these days, maybe no-one notices but sub-consciously it is a factor.
We metalheads must work harder compared to other genres because most women dont take to metal.



Offline whammy

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2010, 12:46:24 PM »
yeah....but that is the way it will always be...well maybe half price cocktails would bring em in and then what, everyone stands around trying to pick-up like you say... the music, the atmosphere is lost, the whole reason for being there is gone...might as well go to the Deen   
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Offline WarNick

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2010, 12:51:54 PM »
Organise gigs where skimpies can be arranged = problem solved. :P

Offline Trolld

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2010, 12:53:23 PM »
Yeah, maybe free entry for girls, I dunno.... something to bring 'em in.
And its not neccesarily a "bring girls in then metalheads will find it easier to pick up", its more about providing balance to create a better atmosphere at gigs.
Lets face it chicks are a lot safer at Metal gigs than any club or whatever, maybe that can be played on for example.

Sometimes I've been to gigs with a Male:Female ratio akin to that of a f&*king stripclub.. theres something wrong there definately.

Offline Nosaj

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Re: Decline?
« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2010, 12:58:04 PM »
Certain venues that stop selling drinks half an hour before closing time and Fuck head bouncers.

Places like the Rocket Room that have a bad reputation for corrupt bouncers and being raided by corrupt cops.
So what kind of Metal classification would You give to CuntScrape?

I would say Thush Metal.