Author Topic: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band  (Read 6003 times)

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Offline Mago_Haydz

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Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« on: December 24, 2010, 07:34:50 AM »
Weird article I found on a news website. Not exactly what I expected it to be about

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Growing up, I thought of Pantera as a heavy metal band. That was before I read the Greek philosopher, Celsus whose anti-Christian writings are recorded by the Christian writer, Origen. Around a century after the composition of the biblical Gospels, Celsus wrote various works opposing Christian doctrine.


One writer describes Celsus as ?the first Nietzschean?, such was his vehement objection to the traditional (and historical) teaching that Jesus of Nazareth was born of a virgin, taught and ministered around Galilee to much acclaim, and was then crucified by Roman prefect, Pontius Pilate, and seen alive again three days after his death.

Among Celsus?s claims about the fallacies of Christian history is the report that Jesus was fathered by a Roman soldier called Pantera (Origen, Contra Celsum, I:32, 34). This is the first known mention of this view, so we can?t know how prevalent it was (it was later picked up in some Jewish writings). However, it is attractive to those who would like to ?domesticate? the Christmas story.

After all, it is immediately believable that Mary was involved with a Roman soldier, and that her disgrace was covered in retrospect by a story about Jesus? immaculate conception. Many people find such historical speculations very attractive.

But they are precisely that: speculations. Compared with the data we have about the birth of Jesus from the New Testament, the ?Pantera parent? story is almost without merit. All it has going for it is the ?it sounds like it might make sense? vibe. In history, that is rarely enough, even when the stakes are as high as they are when we are talking about the origins of the Christian faith.

Even controversial Jesus scholar, John Dominic Crossan, is on record as accepting that Celsus?s comments are a reaction to the already dominant (albeit sensational) account that Jesus was born of a virgin. As Origen points out, the account of the virgin birth was hardly an acceptable story-it was as astonishing to its first hearers as it is to us today.

It is the very irregularity of it that makes it stand out. Christians interpret this as the fulfilment of promises made a long time ago to the Israelites, expressed in the book of Isaiah, chapter 7. In this passage, a virgin will give birth to a child called ?Immanuel?, which means ?God with us?. This passage is picked up by the writer of the Gospel of Matthew (chapter 1) to emphasise the manner in which God has ?turned up? in the person of Jesus. Matthew adds that ?Jesus? (or ?Joshua? in Hebrew) means ?God saves?, making Jesus not only the way we know God, but also the way we make peace with God.

So what drove Celsus, a careful thinker and perhaps the first true intellectual opponent of Christianity, to take to heart this speculation about Mr Pantera?

We are given a hint in other passages cited by Origen: Celsus has a major problem with ?sinners?, and a bigger problem with the Christian attitude to them. Celsus complained about the way Christians seemed to care more for the worst of humanity than they did for the upright and respectable: ?What is this preference of Christians for sinners over others?? cries the bewildered Celsus (III:64). Celsus thought Christians tried to convert sinners because they were ?unable to convert anyone really good and righteous? and ?open their doors to the most impious and abominable men? (III:65).

Origen offers a solution to Celsus?s problem by pointing out that the thing Celsus despises is precisely what God offers to the world through Jesus Christ. Although God is no fan of sin, he is a big fan of ?repentance?-that is, admitting your faults, turning away from them and throwing yourself on God?s mercy. Jesus taught that the door to eternity is open to sinners who repent, and ?there is more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.? (Luke chapter 15).

I have to add that I?m still on the look-out for those ninety-nine righteous persons.

The apostle Paul, founder of so many of the earliest Christian churches, discovered in Jesus? teaching about welcoming the sinner the sweet spot of faith: ?Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst? (1 Timothy 1:15).

Christmas is about God?s gift to sinners: Jesus, who is both ?Immanuel? and ?Joshua?, God among us who brings salvation. That?s why we sing about the child born of Mary.

I?m not sure whether Pantera named their band after the supposed father of Jesus. Another view says it was the name of an Italian sports car in the 70s, or just Spanish for ?panther?. What I do know is that I thank God that he has an outrageous preference for sinners, or Christmas would for me be little more than a tale of bastardry signifying nothing.
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Offline sheppo

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2010, 10:44:30 AM »
 :err:
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Offline nihilist

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2010, 12:12:59 PM »
Let's face it, a bunch of rednecks like Pantera have no idea what it means, they just thought it sounded cool.

Unfortunately I can't blame Phil Anselmo for this one because he joined the band well and truly after it was named.

It's down to Bodybag and Vinnie.
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Offline petrol n metal

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2010, 06:43:34 PM »
who gives a fuck about where they pulled the name from!, it was a cool band name. Dosnt change the fact that they were a fucking kick ass band! :headbang: End of story.

Offline Senton

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2010, 06:22:09 AM »
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Offline goat

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2010, 10:51:56 AM »
erghhh (shudders) Thank fuck Phil isnt in that photo though.
i have seen an album cover with him in glam and its not fuckn pretty let me tell you.

Offline Nosaj

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2010, 01:52:09 PM »
Phil was in the first photo of that vid. I do have a cd of their glam stuff and as far as the music goes it's pretty good. The clothing on the other hand is questionable. But that was popular at the time and they changed from glam to the harcore image at just the right time.

Cowboys came out when the hair metal thing was slowly dying out. CBH still had elements of glam. I am guessing they wanted to retain just enough of the hairmetal/glam sound to stay relevant while moving towards the heavier/hardcore image that they will become well known for in the later years.

IMHO Pantera have their heads screwed on.
So what kind of Metal classification would You give to CuntScrape?

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Offline Grim

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2010, 10:00:41 AM »
Nice story.

Pantera are outstanding (in certain parts of their career anyway).

Offline whammy

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2011, 09:37:25 AM »
in all parts...fuck all that celsus shit

good point nihilist...except "bodybag"...nice
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 09:42:18 AM by Whammy »
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Offline goat

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2011, 01:41:50 PM »
Pantera were ok in their day.
Very much a band of the times though i think, didnt really carry across thru the years.

Phil was kinda like Corey from Slipknot, talked a whole lota shit at times about real childish crap.

Its just entertainment folks.

Offline cheersvb

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2011, 05:07:38 PM »
pantera are sikk
6169 4 lyf

Offline goat

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2011, 07:01:30 PM »
sikk as bro ey?

Offline whammy

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2011, 08:55:09 PM »
Pantera were ok in their day.
Very much a band of the times though i think, didnt really carry across thru the years.

Phil was kinda like Corey from Slipknot, talked a whole lota shit at times about real childish crap.

Its just entertainment folks.

then that applies to every other band before and after
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Offline goat

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2011, 09:01:40 PM »
meh i dunno,
There's alot of bands that i can still listen to from years ago, Pantera isnt one em.
I used to really dig them tho.

Priest, Metallica (old shit) Maiden (old shit) Fear factory, old school SYL, old school Messugah, etc etc.

Maybe i didnt like Pantera as much as i thought.


Offline goat

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2011, 09:03:24 PM »
Or are you talking about the dribbling shit part?

Offline whammy

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2011, 08:17:12 PM »
both really...i find the opposite to you, I listen to them more now and repeatedly so...cemetery gates, floods suicide note 1, great southern trendkill, 5 minutes...some just get played all the time...each to their own i guess

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Offline goat

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2011, 08:27:51 PM »
ok, fair enough,
actually GSTK is a good album. Yer right Suicide note is rippn.
I kinda found Vulgar, Cowbells and Far beyond, to have a very unique and now dated sound. Maybe i just thrashed that shit too much.

I found Vinnies drum sound to be over engineered.  GSTK was different tho, maybe they had a different engineer.






Offline Mago_Haydz

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2011, 09:59:24 PM »
Its no surprise to anyone that knows me, but I find Pantera one of the most timeless bands ever.  :headbang:
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Offline whammy

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2011, 07:56:17 AM »
that's it...thrash puppets or cowboys...
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Offline grinder

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2011, 04:22:16 PM »
ITS A BROTHERHOOD,, DRINKING, DOPE SMOKING , "FUCK THE WORLD" ETHOS. :headbang: :headbang:..........good message...

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Offline schist

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2011, 10:04:02 PM »
ITS A BROTHERHOOD,, DRINKING, DOPE SMOKING , "FUCK THE WORLD" ETHOS. :headbang: :headbang:..........good message...

rip DIAMOND DARRELL


WAY TO RESURRECT A 9-MONTH OLD THREAD DICKBUTT  :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

Offline whammy

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2011, 08:05:03 AM »
way to respond...as here  :'(
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Offline ded

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2011, 04:23:49 PM »
Never saw this thread..........

Pantera are timeless!
You know one thing I'll never understand about you.  No matter how many times I kick you in the teeth, smack you with the manhole cover, throw hot water in your face, pour molten glass in your rectum.....you'll always come back for more.

Offline whammy

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2011, 09:15:51 AM »
nothing more accurate than that statement  :headbang:   (except a dale steyn inswinging yorker)
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Offline chancellorisgod

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Re: Pantera is not just a heavy metal band
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2011, 11:12:02 PM »
ITS A BROTHERHOOD,, DRINKING, DOPE SMOKING , "FUCK THE WORLD" ETHOS. :headbang: :headbang:..........good message...

rip DIAMOND DARRELL


WAY TO RESURRECT A 9-MONTH OLD THREAD DICKBUTT  :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

And people wonder why new members don't stick around  :eyebrows: