Western Front Forum
Battlezone => The Frontline => Topic started by: Catalyst on January 28, 2010, 04:13:20 PM
-
After our launch I was talking to Daz and the guys about what the problem was, why we didn't get the 350 through the door that we had hoped for. As usual Daz offered intelligent answers and as usual Big Mac just gibbered a bunch of nonsense. But something he said stuck with me. He said:
"Look at the scene recently, man. Nobody much is coming to local gigs at the moment. 12 Months ago there was a thriving scene, but the bigger bands, the exciting ones to watch have gone into recession a bit. Voyager have gone quiet, Malignant Monster have had months of silence while Cain was away, Grotesque has had to rebuild after Taz, WE have been quieter than usual while prepping for the CD launch, Wardaemonic have been awol, Psychonaut have gonna underground to record.... " he had a longer list but I forget the details. He went on:
"With these bands silent or close to, and no new band emerging to grab the scene and shake it out of its como, the second tier bands are doing more gigs and though they are trying, they just don't know how to put on a really great show. So people aren't showing up because they don't care enough."
Maybe there is some truth in what he is saying. In amongst the bands stepping up, there are those who are ready to be bigger bands. Claim the Throne and Lacrymae are two such bands and good on them, but their sounds are unusual and are targetted at rather obsure musical demographics, even within the already obscure metal scene. Music like Viking-inspired Ale drinkin' music and opera metal are going to be an acquired taste no matter what, no offence intended of course. It is like we are spoiled for choice in this state and fighting for the same circle of punters. But I have a another theory. The state of world music is undergoing a metamorphisis, as record companies are no longer making millions off CD sales and so are sending their labelled bands in a constant touring loop around the world. Bands who would never tour Perth have been here, and the more that come chasing our bucks, the more WILL come. So the local gigs are up against the international gigs in the same venues, and the polished professionalism of these bands is making the gap between the bands that much wider.
I would like to hear some other opinions on this.
I have seen the scene rise and fall over the years, there have been times when the local metal scene has been largely ignored and times when it is busy as hell, but right now I believe we are at a crossroads. If local bands are going to compete in this new metal environment they are going to have to step up on a massive scale, or they will fall by the wayside.
I have ideas as to what we can do to revitalise our beloved Metal scene, but nothing concrete. That is a job for higher mammals than me. I would like to hear the thought of some of them.
-
:o i heard a similar rant from some other people recently!
i personlly try to go to as many gig when im in perth as i can, but people to go with are dwindlng in supply so i tend to go by myself
-
I think u may be onto something, I think Perth is metamorphosizing, along with the rest of the world, away from the big label mentality to a state of greater independance, with many having thier own studios, doing thier own promotion etc. But, as far as punters go I think we are all fighting over the same 500 or so, that as the government makes venues scan people and licenes, cracks down on drunkeness coming out of venues, Drugs, drink driving, hoons, roudyness etc. With metal heads being a target because of our appearances, I think more and more punters are staying home to have beers and listening to thier fav metal... Just my 2 cents.
-
Its probably the timing man.
From what I can tell, the gig was first announced/posted up on the 27th December, so obviously theres Xmas and New Years to get people distracted. Thats gonna affect the amount of people who are aware of the gig regardless of how much you promote it. Plus with the 'Straya day public holiday just after, thats another factor.
You have to admit Neverborns music is also 'unusual' . Its complex and aggressive with a lot of layers going on there. Also, and no offence as this is all just how i see it and constructive criticism, but perhaps people/randoms arent too familiar with you guys still.
Neverborn are one of the hardest working metal bands Ive seen as far as 'stage production' and trying to put on a show with the props etc, but Ive NEVER seen a Neverborn cd or Tshirt in 78's, Dadas or Planet. This is important for you guys (and ANY bands). You have tracks on compilations with links back to your myspace, and you have some links there but PROMOTE THAT! Get people to know about it.
Also, occasionally maybe you undo your hard work with some forum 'tit for tat'. If you take some of Perth metals 'bigger name' bands, very rarely do they get in online rants/arguments. Im not saying you shouldnt be on, but you are representing your band pretty much on here.
But thats just my 2c, the cd sounds great, and the artwork is pretty great too. Keep at it guys and dont get disheartened :)
-
I am wondering why you expected to get 350 people when international bands have attracted less.
For once this isn't even a sarcastic dig, just seems strange to have budgeted for that many.
-
i think Daz's explanation is right, at least in my case. I haven't seen a line-up that's truly grabbed my attention in ages.
I'm keen for the Brutal Fisting gig coming up, because I can look at the bill in its entirety and see more than one band I think would be worth seeing, but lately it's been one "okay" or "decent" band, and a hell of a lot of random other stuff I consider "filler".
It's hard to get it together to go out just to wait for one local band that I like to come on. I'm all for having a drink or 3 while I wait, but mannnnnnn with gigs these days, it'd be a hell of a drink break.
My exception is Maxi P. If they play, and every other band is shit, I will still be there.
-
Global Financial Crisis = less money for "fun" or hobby activities. Ive noticed less people wanting to purchase small items/repairs/mods through work, but the big sales are still strong. Those with jobs are carrying on like normal. One section of the community are tightening belts though.
More international gigs = more people saving for those events, bypassing local gigs
Interest rates = less money for "fun" or hobby activities
Castle (which is where a LOT more metal gigs are now) is just a shitty venue. A lot of people just dont want to go there regardless of band.
Promo - ok, so i havent been to as many 'metal' gigs in the last year either, but i dont see the same level of promo from the bands any more. I cant remember the last time i got given a flyer. I dont see as many posters around town. It seems to be all facebook these days. That works, but its ONE avenue.
Marketting your band/business/whatever is a constantly evolving process. You need to change with the times, or you get left behind.
-
Its probably the timing man.
Yeah sure. But I am not willing to sit back and accept that without looking deeper. If it was just our launch I would think that we just thought we were more popular that we are, but Enforce and Gallows are two sucessful local bands in their own rights too and they were also suprised at the sufficient but not spectactular turnout. I am hearing similar comments from plenty of other bands and punters too. Hence this topic.
You have to admit Neverborns music is also 'unusual' . Its complex and aggressive with a lot of layers going on there. Also, and no offence as this is all just how i see it and constructive criticism, but perhaps people/randoms arent too familiar with you guys still.
Neverborn are one of the hardest working metal bands Ive seen as far as 'stage production' and trying to put on a show with the props etc, but Ive NEVER seen a Neverborn cd or Tshirt in 78's, Dadas or Planet. This is important for you guys (and ANY bands). You have tracks on compilations with links back to your myspace, and you have some links there but PROMOTE THAT! Get people to know about it.
That's some useful feedback man, appreciate it. We are aware of the shortfall in merch and cybespace promotion. This CD is the first one that has been barcoded so the first we can put in shops. But this is more than just about us guys, I have noticed a real drop off in attendance of almost all local metal gigs, just tyrying to put my finger on the answer. Which is hard since I am not sure of the question.
I am wondering why you expected to get 350 people when international bands have attracted less. For once this isn't even a sarcastic dig, just seems strange to have budgeted for that many.
Yeah. We didn't budget, just hoped. It WAS naive to think that we could pull the numbers, but we chose bands from across the metal genre spectrum and it should have been better. I guess we had unfounded belief in ourselves, but again this is not just about US, it is about the general scene and how the other bands are feeling about it.
-
Global Financial Crisis = less money for "fun" or hobby activities. Ive noticed less people wanting to purchase small items/repairs/mods through work, but the big sales are still strong. Those with jobs are carrying on like normal. One section of the community are tightening belts though.
More international gigs = more people saving for those events, bypassing local gigs
Interest rates = less money for "fun" or hobby activities
Castle (which is where a LOT more metal gigs are now) is just a shitty venue. A lot of people just dont want to go there regardless of band.
Promo - ok, so i havent been to as many 'metal' gigs in the last year either, but i dont see the same level of promo from the bands any more. I cant remember the last time i got given a flyer. I dont see as many posters around town. It seems to be all facebook these days. That works, but its ONE avenue.
Marketting your band/business/whatever is a constantly evolving process. You need to change with the times, or you get left behind.
Global financial crisis? Interest rates? You make it sound like metal fans are normal members of society!
-
we all pretend to be normal members of society to pass through the crowds unnoticed like a metal head ninja!
i find my mates are saying more and more its the money, given the rediculous beer prices (how ever necessary they are) and taxi fares to far off places and no garrantee of a good sound, means they'd rather get a bottle and battle it out on rock band on the wii!
for me if there are certain bands playing;enforce, claim the throne, pathogen, noctis, etc the money is no issue cuz i freakin love local metal, but the prices of int. band are starting to get a bit steep, ala the D666 fiasco with JSR (although i firmly blame JSR for that fuk up)
i have to admit ive only heard of Neverborn in the last 18 months and im pissed i missed the launch! but perhaps wat is needed is more metal influenced events just not gigs.can be under the WF banner or wat ever just something that strengthens the community as a whole, introduces everyone to everyone else, and in turn through word of mouth gigs are promoted and attendance may rise. ive often thought some events needed a metal flavour to them..pool halls for example shit me to tears with their mtv emo crap musik playing, mebe rent out a hall and play some good tunes. underground movies is a nother one, ie metal documentries etc to ge screened at i unno astor.
anyway just my 2 cents.
also i always wanted to start a metal religion, "Metalology" get registed as a non profit organization, so when u have gigs they become "sermons" and become a tax right off :laugh:
-
I'd say lack of central venues is a huge issue. I can't see any other reason why gigs at amplifier can consistently pull 400 people regardless of lineup, while at any other venue in Perth, you'd be very lucky to see 200 people through the door. To me this suggests that people aren't willing to go to gigs that are not in the city and close to the train station. It's probably fair to say that amplifier gigs get more promo, but I still think a gig at amps with virtually no promo will still attract more people than a gig at the Charles or Rosemount with all the promo in the world, and that's not taking into account the death disco crew that rock up early to avoid the lines. Also, the lack of metal gigs at amps due to the venue's extreme popularity among other scenes is obviously not very conducive to maintaining a scene. Lack of gigs at decent venues = reduction of interest from punters.
Given my personal situation, I'm in no position to rag on people who don't go to gigs cause I've been to fuck all over the last couple of years other than the ones I'm playing at. However, before I decided to commit myself to 3 years of being a poor cunt, I was a regular at most gigs at most venues and was more than happy to taxi it in and taxi it home while still having plenty of beverages. It therefore seems a bit strange to me that so few people these days are as keen to get out and see bands as I and many others once were several years ago.
-
I think ur answer to that again is the rising cost factor of everything over the last few years. And the average wage has not gone up to compensate.
-
I think ur answer to that again is the rising cost factor of everything over the last few years. And the average wage has not gone up to compensate.
I'm tempted to agree with you there - Villa was a perfect example the other night... Local STUBBIES were $8.50 and imports were $9-10! Add to that the fact that they didn't have any beers on tap and it winds up being a very costly night if you feel like getting a bit pissy.
Cabs aren't getting any cheaper either - I paid for a maxi from Balga to the city a couple of months ago and it cost $48!!!
-
Local STUBBIES were $8.50 and imports were $9-10! Add to that the fact that they didn't have any beers on tap and it winds up being a very costly night if you feel like getting a bit pissy.
Holy shit. :o
-
also i always wanted to start a metal religion, "Metalology" get registed as a non profit organization, so when u have gigs they become "sermons" and become a tax right off :laugh:
:laugh: As metallurgists, i feel we should spear-head this new religion
-
its because I havent been on WF for ages. Sorry about that guys.
-
I reckon firstly, the venue. Like others have mentioned - pretty much regardless of who plays, you get big numbers at the amps for just about every gig. Heat or whatever it's called now - even though it's a big place and looks pretty good, isn't geographically blessed to be in an amongst Perth's hotspot for crowds and kebab stores and the like. So with that said, getting 200 people isn't too bad given you gave less than a months notice.
2nd, more and more performers AND punters seem to be developing a negative view of the castle. This kind of attitude spreads pretty easily and cripples attendances and in turn the metal scene over time, ultimately. Strange but true: The castle probably has a better sound than Heat seems to ever get. People turning their noses up at the place are no better than the scum that chooses to go to the Paramount every weekend. If metal and cheap beer is your fuel then really the Castle should be the holy land.
-
its because I havent been on WF for ages. Sorry about that guys.
Yeah what the FUCK haydz.
Better have been busy writing stories!
-
For me i just lack motivation to go out and watch gigs due to my lack of interest in most of perths bands.
We need a bigger pool, of quality bands, the problem with this is there are a lot of "good" bands in the making as we speak, many of whom just aren't prepared to go on stage yet.
I can see your point and i do agree that perth and the global scene is changing a bit.
What Perth needs imo is a fresh breath of air, something that will make everybody excited/motivated to go out and see. With the bands that do currently do this in Perth being not as active as they were maybe a year ago as discussed above it doesn't help our cause as a scene.
I know my prog power band will join the likes of voyager and lacrymae when we are ready to jump on the stage, meaning that we are just going to be another niche band. So Perth may not really be our place, but we still enjoy what we do.
The same can be said for Labyrinth, black metal is always going to be an acquired taste also.
Perth does have a lot of talented musicians and alot of potential we just need a fresh of breath air to remind us of this. We have been reminded again and again by some of Perths top bands, all we need is time imo.
-
also i always wanted to start a metal religion, "Metalology" get registed as a non profit organization, so when u have gigs they become "sermons" and become a tax right off :laugh:
:laugh: As metallurgists, i feel we should spear-head this new religion
Ahem...im now a Project Metallurgist thank you very much!!!
but yes i feel it encompasses my 2 true loves...metallurgy and heavy metal
-
This CD is the first one that has been barcoded so the first we can put in shops.
You dont need a barcode to put cds in 78s. dadas or Planet, just an ABN.
-
I think that the reasons for a decline in the number of people attending local shows are probably all those things you guys suggested and more. I think the answer is better promotion to reach more people, people who normally don't even think to go to local shows. Essentially if the old audiences are declining we need to find new ones.
I have a few ideas about how to do that - I run a web development business so I spend a lot of time helping my clients work that shit out too. More comprehensive online promotion just generally is one thing I think is needed - but that shit is an art, not everyone who is in a band should be expected to know how to do that. MySpace is good for bands but doesn't give you the tools you need to reach people easily where they spend their time - for that you need Facebook and (responsible, properly done) email marketing (and I'm not talking about a shitty email with no subject, everyone in the cc line and a jpeg attached - which I have actually received from promoters before - I'm talking about properly constructed templates, subscription options, regular schedules, etc).
But I also have this other crazy idea: in the suburbs, there are hundreds, nay thousands, of regular bogans just like us, many of whom don't realise that there's a local scene at all or if they do, they don't realise that it's really fucking top stuff, or they're too young to be involved. It would be a huge effort and would require organisation and co-operation, but imagine plastering every local IGA, supa valu, deli and bottle shop in the suburbs with local gig posters each and every week. Everyone eats... stick gig posters up in the same places where there are flyers advertising commodores for sale and lost dogs and brickies for hire and whatever.
It would need to be consistent... but imagine over time the band names/logos become familiar to people who've never even thought about going to a local show. You're building up the band's reputation with people who've never even seen them. And if even 10% of the people who take notice of the posters who hadn't before come to a show... that's a new audience that you're building there.
Having said that, $8 and $9 beers (and worse) annoy the shit out of me. That's just out and out greed by the venues, IMHO.
-
Fuck, there are some brilliant thought processes going on here. Keep it up people.
-
But I also have this other crazy idea: in the suburbs, there are hundreds, nay thousands, of regular bogans just like us, many of whom don't realise that there's a local scene at all or if they do, they don't realise that it's really fucking top stuff, or they're too young to be involved. It would be a huge effort and would require organisation and co-operation, but imagine plastering every local IGA, supa valu, deli and bottle shop in the suburbs with local gig posters each and every week. Everyone eats... stick gig posters up in the same places where there are flyers advertising commodores for sale and lost dogs and brickies for hire and whatever.
Now THAT is a fucking good idea. I think all the issues addressed in this thread so far play a role in what is happening to us the musos,promoters, metal fans etc. it seems there is enough of us peeps that give a shit and wanna see the day where people are getting wild and toppling over other people and having some good ol metal fun! There has been many times when i have been at international gigs and look around at all the punters and think "where the fuck do all these people come from and why arn't they at local gigs!"
I think venue support would go a looong way also.There are venues open to "allowing" local bands to play at their venue, but at what cost. Twice the restrictions, expensive piss, hiring costs and THEN they want you to fucking hire a P.A. I have no idea how but there must be some way to make hosting a metal show an attractive prospect for venues.At the end of the day i think we need more "live" venues not pubs/clubs that have a stage. The more competition in that regard i think will bring alot more activity and EXCITEMENT to perth metal.
I think a serious calloboration from this thread should be put together and maybe it can be put to some good use or strategy. For those who know me i have done a lot of live mixing around town, have hosted and promoted shows before and it aint an easy task. I would be happy to help out in anyway i can.
my 20 cents, keep the change.
-
We need a bigger pool, of quality bands,
We have over 100 'metal' bands in Perth. Quality bands however, that's a different matter.
but imagine plastering every local IGA, supa valu, deli and bottle shop in the suburbs with local gig posters
I put a poster or two up for one of my gigs at a local IGA... and two people turned up, who had never been to a local gig before. This sort of stuff does work, but it takes a lot more effort. Before I meet some local bands and started to visit WF, I really had no idea that we even had any metal bands here in Perth.
-
but imagine plastering every local IGA, supa valu, deli and bottle shop in the suburbs with local gig posters
I put a poster or two up for one of my gigs at a local IGA... and two people turned up, who had never been to a local gig before. This sort of stuff does work, but it takes a lot more effort. Before I meet some local bands and started to visit WF, I really had no idea that we even had any metal bands here in Perth.
To be successful, it would need to be an organised co-operative effort. Divide the map up, mark off the target locations, each participant claims a zone close to where they live or work. If black and white homeprinted A4 is ok (don't see why not), everyone uploads their gig flyers to a particular location, and every say Wednesday or Thursday each participant prints out a few of each of them and takes them down to their local locations. If everyone did three or four or five supermarkets or delis or whatever, it wouldn't take too long and there'd be pretty good coverage.
It would have to be co-operative - no "I don't like this band so I'm not gonna put up their poster" bullshit, but I reckon it could work. Hell, if someone wants to kick it off I'd be willing to do some footwork each week.
-
Another factor would be people going to the overseas metal fests in europe.
-
If black and white homeprinted A4 is ok (don't see why not),
Even professionally, A4 b&w is no more than 10c a page. Printing fliers and posters isn't a problem, the trick is to make them effective, to get people to look at them AND turn up to the show.
I like the ideas of reaching out into the suburbs. Perhaps some suburban shows might be an idea too. The current crowd of regulars usually know what's on through word of mouth, and WF, so extra advertising to them is a waste. However, it's the metal heads who turn up to the international gigs which we never see again who we should be focusing on reaching.
-
If black and white homeprinted A4 is ok (don't see why not),
Even professionally, A4 b&w is no more than 10c a page. Printing fliers and posters isn't a problem, the trick is to make them effective, to get people to look at them AND turn up to the show.
I like the ideas of reaching out into the suburbs. Perhaps some suburban shows might be an idea too. The current crowd of regulars usually know what's on through word of mouth, and WF, so extra advertising to them is a waste. However, it's the metal heads who turn up to the international gigs which we never see again who we should be focusing on reaching.
Only issue is reaching these people isn't the problem, its changing their mentality of "local metal is fucking shit"... I see people handing out fliers all the time at international gigs and most meatheads walk halfway up the street and drop them on the ground :no:
-
That'a why we gave out free CDs by the hundreds, to give them something they can actually listen to and decide for themselves. And still no massive increase in numbers.
-
Its not a metal problem, in fact not even an original music problem. I am seeing the same thing from my weekly cover gigs.
People dont have the money to be going out every weekend, and when they do, they arent drinking as much and generally not hanging around as long.
Many people work the day after now, having to take on extra work to pay the bills.
Ormsby raised a good point about the promotion being too one-dimensional these days, because of the ease of facebook, etc.
However, I have never believed that the entry fee would stop local people seeing a local show. WA has been one of the states least affected by the GFC, and when your friends claim the entry fee was too expensive, youve gotta concede that they probably werent going to come anyway, regardless of cost - Its just a convenient excuse. Those people that really want to be there will be there.
-
That'a why we gave out free CDs by the hundreds, to give them something they can actually listen to and decide for themselves. And still no massive increase in numbers.
If they are walking up the street and dumping your flyers, what makes you think your CD gets any more attention? Because you've spent more money on it, they might make more of an effort to pay attention? You need to capture their interest first. Once you've got a bit of interest, you bring out the CD.
When was the last time (or... ever?) that a local band took 15 seconds out of their support slot with an international band, to say, not just "we are playing next weekend", but "hey guys, we have an awesome local scene. Its great to see all you guys, but you really need to check out the local scene. You're all metal heads, and every weekend there is a gig with some top rated bands, all for a tenth of the price of what you paid to be here for (insert international band name)". Whats that... seven seconds?
-
I agree with TnT, in so far as this type of thing being cyclical. I am sure for those who have been following the scene long enough can remember before Scourge, Voyager, Syzygy etc... came on (timeline might be wrong but..) there would have been periods of quiet while the gig load was spread amongst fewer and less favouritre bands. I reckon it needs to build momentum and perhaps those standout bands of the new wave become the next big thing, pulling bigger crowds. Enough people are flooding the city anyway, so going to a light-on-the-wallet metal gig would not be the case...
Also, when the remaining titans get back out there, we might find more gigs at the amplifier again, like the good old times.
-
Also, keep in mind that the Amplifier really does have the cream of the crop when it comes to the bands they want to put on, and tend to allow the bigger boys to play and the less known bands get pushed aside. This would obviously be good for their numbers and the venue's popularity, but not necessarily a big help for newcomers to the scene.
-
1. If there is an international gig near yours, stand out front after & hand out flyers. Cain Cressall is the KING of this & I believe it makes all the difference in the end.
2. If you have an international support slot don't just give a shout out on stage, hand out flyers to your next gig after the show, out front. (unless the promoter of the show you just supported has a problem with that.)
3. Keep flyers in your car & in your pockets. How many times do you see a random metalhead @ a shopping centre, EASY target. If the flyer has the words "free giveaways/bar voucher on it it helps"
4. Put the words FREE GIVEAWAY etc in bold on the bottom of the flyer. Metalheads love FREE shit, esp beer.
5. Plan your promotion timing. Xmas, New Years, Aus day is great timing to catch up & hand shit around, as an opening round of promo early for a gig down the track.
6. Having a gig close to Xmas, New Year, Aus day is a risky call. Even though Big Day out & Soundwave are not till after this, most people tend to buy there tix around this time. So with all this going on they are BROKE.
7. International bands will come around summer as this is the summer festival season.
8. POSTERS!!!!!
9. Here is an idea. Try get a grant for advertising on commercial t.v. If it fails who cares you are no worse off. If it passes WOOHOO. There are a few people within the scene who could shoot/ put together a shit hot advert.
10. Play your ass off @ EVERY show. We are now competing with the big international bands for ticket sales.
When a touring band blows you away ask yourself WHY?
11. Lighting, where possible get the lighting rig cranking. Many a time that is the difference between the touring band looking awesome & a local show looking lame.
I have seen plenty of opening bands play better & tighter than the touring act, yet the touring act comes across as better simply because of lighting. With touring acts the opening band gets restricted use of lighting & sound etc, this however seems to be forgotten @ many a local show.
-
^--- Damn, good advice there man!! I wanna print that shit out and make it a poster for my wall!! :headbang:
-
I love giveaways :D
-
3. Keep flyers in your car & in your pockets. How many times do you see a random metalhead @ a shopping centre, EASY target. If the flyer has the words "free giveaways/bar voucher on it it helps"
This is how I ended up at my first gig, I got ambushed at Carousel when I was 17.
-
Wow.. So it's been 2 years already?!
;D
-
2. If you have an international support slot don't just give a shout out on stage, hand out flyers to your next gig after the show, out front. (unless the promoter of the show you just supported has a problem with that.)
Most venues aren't keen about people handing out fliers to shows at other venues, as they too are competing for customers. If you hand them out outside the venue though, there shouldn't be any problems.
-
Wow.. So it's been 2 years already?!
;D
I'm struggling to wrap my head around this one, what do you mean?
-
You need to have a shit hot live show some of the bands i have seen look like its a hassle/look almost like they going through the motions/or dont look they take it too seriously which is cool if you are doing it for shits and giggles but not if you want to go somewhere with your tunes. Even if you are playing to 6 people and the sound guy you have to blow them away thats one way of slowly building a fan base with the whole word of mouth "Holy shit you NEED to see X band ".
-
Can anyone give insight to whether this is happening in the eastern states as well? Dysie if you read this have you heard anything from local promoters or even regular punters that you may be in contact with?
The times they are a changing...
A lot of the draw cards are sorting out line-up changes and rehearsing new members, recording ect, there are a a lot of band still worth supporting though.
Those draw cards started off in the same positions, there's no limit to what a band can do if they put a lot of effort in behind the scenes,
I just think that in this present time with all the economic bullshit and things moving so fast that its getting harder to be able to be there to support them, transportation, drinks $$, no smoking almost anywhere, the law on DD, and also being so many gigs to choose from.
A lot of the times everyone will go to a gig even if they don't support any of the bands, its juts cause the booze flows cheaper, its easy to get to and at least a couple mates are there supporting at least one band on the bill.
I think if there were a couple different, consistent venues in the same proximity as amps(city side) and rocket room(bridge side) catering more for the rock/metal crowd, Ala rocket room with ...more room and a better stage and better air conditioning than things would be a bit easier.
If Devillles was next to Carnegie's and did metal gigs it would be a smash..providing bit bigger stage and better sound. Its like someone made hell into a nightclub, a swinging 50's/60's hell nightclub kinda thing.
Black Betty's is only other bigger rock option besides rocket and castle, and lets face it its still pretty commercial and not a lot of metal heads would step foot there, not to mention I'm sure they aren't too keen on hosting local metal gigs more often.
I know there is the castle and its a more than adequate venue for that kind of thing but a large proportion of people will no go out of their way if its not flashing right up in their faces across the road from the traino. Hence the rocket room being around for so long and to a certain extent amps, which in another way of being forced into peoples sinuses is it's very well advertised as being the place to be.
For anyone who was around from the earliest days of the modern metal scene (lets say 1992-present)
How many venue's did you have to choose from?
How much promotion did you see from bands? (flyers, posters ect ect)
How consistent were gigs?
How many band's were there at its peak?
I think if everyone keeps contributing and adding their 2 cents, ideas, brainstorms, drunken/stoned rants then maybe bands will come across some very valuable info and start to add to the scene from a different perspective.
Perhaps once again things are going into a hibernation phase where everyone has kinda grown up a little and has some life shit to sort out and then once people settle it will thrive again with renewed energy.
And hopefully a new generation will come along with it such as it has the past few years.
God this is like Milo and Otis kinda shit.
-
Too many gigs. Not enough people. Bad Venues. High cost of beer.
-
1. If there is an international gig near yours, stand out front after & hand out flyers. Cain Cressall is the KING of this & I believe it makes all the difference in the end. 2. If you have an international support slot don't just give a shout out on stage, hand out flyers to your next gig after the show, out front. (unless the promoter of the show you just supported has a problem with that.)
Yep, we have been, and trying different kinds of marketting, like the free CDs.
3. Keep flyers in your car & in your pockets. How many times do you see a random metalhead @ a shopping centre, EASY target.
I do that. I never go shopping without a handful of promo stuff.
If the flyer has the words "free giveaways/bar voucher on it it helps. Put the words FREE GIVEAWAY etc in bold on the bottom of the flyer. Metalheads love FREE shit, esp beer.
Great idea, that one never occured to me.
Plan your promotion timing. Xmas, New Years, Aus day is great timing to catch up & hand shit around, as an opening round of promo early for a gig down the track. 6. Having a gig close to Xmas, New Year, Aus day is a risky call. Even though Big Day out & Soundwave are not till after this, most people tend to buy there tix around this time. So with all this going on they are BROKE.
Yeah. We knew that might be a factor, but having a launch crammed between two international supports seemed to be the ultimate in building momentum.
10. Play your ass off @ EVERY show. We are now competing with the big international bands for ticket sales.
When a touring band blows you away ask yourself WHY? Lighting, where possible get the lighting rig cranking. Many a time that is the difference between the touring band looking awesome & a local show looking lame.
I have seen plenty of opening bands play better & tighter than the touring act, yet the touring act comes across as better simply because of lighting. With touring acts the opening band gets restricted use of lighting & sound etc, this however seems to be forgotten @ many a local show.
We try to go off every gig, plus do the stage props and stuff for big events. We also paid a bit extra for the lighting in that place, and in truth had him save a couple of the effects for us, as last band on.
It feels to me that we are doing almost everything we can at the moment. What about other bands? What are they doing to help promote themselves and the scene?
-
I think we're all forgetting one undeniable factor here.. and this is gonna sound stupid, but when you really sit back and think about it its so true.
WOMEN
They are the crucial factor for filling venues.
Dont believe me... walk past the lineup at Paramount perfect example have a look at the male:female ratio.
Next time you go to Amps, when you walk down the alley way on the way home have a look.
Then when you walk into a metal gig tonight have a look... about 90% of the time its a sausage fest.
More must be done to attract chicks, dunno how, but if the ratio can be improved somehow, blokes will suddenly find enough money to go to gigs and they will forego that extra slab of beer and the $50 bag, and beer prices will be secondary in thought if theres the possibility of tappin some tail.
It must be tough to be a single guy at a metal gig these days, maybe no-one notices but sub-consciously it is a factor.
We metalheads must work harder compared to other genres because most women dont take to metal.
-
yeah....but that is the way it will always be...well maybe half price cocktails would bring em in and then what, everyone stands around trying to pick-up like you say... the music, the atmosphere is lost, the whole reason for being there is gone...might as well go to the Deen
-
Organise gigs where skimpies can be arranged = problem solved. :P
-
Yeah, maybe free entry for girls, I dunno.... something to bring 'em in.
And its not neccesarily a "bring girls in then metalheads will find it easier to pick up", its more about providing balance to create a better atmosphere at gigs.
Lets face it chicks are a lot safer at Metal gigs than any club or whatever, maybe that can be played on for example.
Sometimes I've been to gigs with a Male:Female ratio akin to that of a f&*king stripclub.. theres something wrong there definately.
-
Certain venues that stop selling drinks half an hour before closing time and Fuck head bouncers.
Places like the Rocket Room that have a bad reputation for corrupt bouncers and being raided by corrupt cops.
-
I dunno guys, I'm a chick (no, really) and I dunno if "luring women" into shows is the right way to go about it... no chick is gonna go to a metal gig if she's not into metal or hanging around someone else who is.
-
^shhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm all for free drinks and entry for the girls. Make it happen :P
But yeah, I've always had a hard time getting my female friends along. Most of them just aren't into it, based on the music and the bogan dudes saying "cunt" all the time ;)
If you can make it easier for me to get my mates to come to shows with me, then please do! I'm kinda fighting an uphill battle, and I know they'd like at least one or two of the bands if they stuck around long enough to give them a try (usually I lose them one or two songs into the first act).
And maybe if there was something else fun to do while they're there... like um... fuck...
Speed-dating. Face painting. Arts and crafts. Palm reading. A photo booth. One of those things where you text a message to a certain number and it comes up on a big screen. Pony rides. Spray tanning. Free spinal checks.
-
Pony rides
FUCK yeah. I'd be all over that. But how you gonna stop the grind dudes from um... making pony porn? or pony burgers? :rofl:
The chicks would be in no danger, but I wouldn't be so sure about any livestock...
-
Pony rides
FUCK yeah. I'd be all over that. But how you gonna stop the grind dudes from um... making pony porn? or pony burgers? :rofl:
The chicks would be in no danger, but I wouldn't be so sure about any livestock...
especially if its a soundworks gig.
-
Pony rides
FUCK yeah. I'd be all over that. But how you gonna stop the grind dudes from um... making pony porn? or pony burgers? :rofl:
The chicks would be in no danger, but I wouldn't be so sure about any livestock...
Last time I checked there were more grind songs with misogynistic themes than livestock themes.
-
Pony rides
FUCK yeah. I'd be all over that. But how you gonna stop the grind dudes from um... making pony porn? or pony burgers? :rofl:
The chicks would be in no danger, but I wouldn't be so sure about any livestock...
Last time I checked there were more grind songs with misogynistic themes than livestock themes.
Yeah but the women fight back. the livestock are much more accommodating :)
-
Well...sorry to say but the way I see it, things have always been shitty...We've all been around a long time , expecting things to improve and build up to critical mass.... but alas.... same ol shit... I think things will change when until everyone pulls back together and starts supporting each other again... For example ...I came over from the rock genre...cause it was Fucked...everyone steppin on each other's face to get where they wanted to be...The metal scene was crankin....All fans were supportin everyone...goin to every show ...thats why metal was gettin the venues...Bums on seats...Drinkin piss...spending money... if we all don't get our shit together soon... local acts will be all fighting for spots at only the shittyist venues..... replaced by some shit.... like dance music dj's, jukebox,or some covers band, playing top 40......Definatly food for thought...metalers.
-
How about some sort of newsletter/mailing list? Sent out every week/2 weeks/month/whatever, it could give a list of upcoming gigs, updates on bands (eg new songs), etc. It would mean that people who are not as active on this site are still up to date with whats going on.
-
For anyone who was around from the earliest days of the modern metal scene (lets say 1992-present)
Shit, here we go (from 1995)
How many venue's did you have to choose from?
About the same - of the ones that were open to original music, from memory
How much promotion did you see from bands? (flyers, posters ect ect)
Probably LESS, but you have to remember promo was a lot harder in that there wasnt really much to social networking aside from #allegiance on IRC :)
However, being that crowds were more actively involved with gigs around town, one poster on the wall did a lot more for recruitment than 20 of them today.
How consistent were gigs?
Every weekend, pretty much same as now.
How many band's were there at its peak?
Impossible to say. There were many death metal bands around when I was starting out, but we were the only prog band around at the time as far as I know.
Again, the overall numbers were probably not too different to now.
Yeah, maybe free entry for girls, I dunno.... something to bring 'em in.
As sexist as that is, its a BRILLIANT idea!
everyone stands around trying to pick-up like you say... the music, the atmosphere is lost, the whole reason for being there is gone...might as well go to the Deen
At least they dont leave :)
And I wouldnt agree the vibe is lost. Ive seen it a hundred thousand times before - one hottie gets onto the dancefloor and then all of a sudden the music is SO much more appealling because everybody gets onto the dancefloor - people wander fwd and that infernal 'void' in the front of the stage disappears.
I wouldnt worry so much about the security aspect of it also. One thing that has always been obvious when I have been at metal shows, and that is that the guys look after their metal ladies. In fact, most of the regular female metal girls are as much 'one of the boys' as the guys are. Ive hardly ever seen any seedy behavior amongst guys at metal shows. Maybe its me, but there seems to be more respect there.
Just to point out too, the Evolution Machine party is showing interest from a very high proportion of female supports, so this could be one of those gigs that bucks the trend. Ill be very interested to see if any of the 'vibe' is lost due to it...
-
good points
-
Did you even bother reading the posts Whammy???
-
Yeah, maybe free entry for girls, I dunno.... something to bring 'em in.
I actually tossed around the idea of offering free entry to anyone who turned up to one of my gigs in a bikini. I think it was for a mid-winter show, so there would have been little risk or anyone actually turning up like that :P
Rock nights at the Castle often get a decent male:female ratio going, as do the lighter metal gigs at Amps. I would definitely say it's the music, rather than the crowd. I'll echo the other comments that metal crowds (the less-bogan ones anyway) do tend to look out for the girls who turn up. Most of the disturbances at gigs tend to be due to outsiders... as elitist as that sounds :/
But how you gonna stop the grind dudes from um... making pony porn?
I'm pretty sure DFC have a song called something like Hot Horses Cum ;)
-
Most of them just aren't into it, based on the music and the bogan dudes saying "cunt" all the time ;)
Tell the cunts to fucken relax aye :rofl:
-
I'm pretty sure DFC have a song called something like Hot Horses Cum ;)
Which I just heard on Friday night, hence the reference :)
-
Most of them just aren't into it, based on the music and the bogan dudes saying "cunt" all the time ;)
Tell the cunts to fucken relax aye :rofl:
In defence of my gender, I love the word "cunt". It's been around for centuries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cunt
Youse have seen this right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gropecunt_Lane
Maybe that's what the alley next to Amps should be named :)
-
I have read all the posts in this thread so far and have decided to join to give my 2 cents
(i lurk because its to much of a dick around to sign up, here i am now :))
ADVERTINING:
If you had billboards around town with gigs on it and TV commercials it would do not much
more because people aren't going to go see a band they DON'T know. You need to make people more aware
of your band and keep up with ebbs and flows. (Neverborn your myspace is obsolete almost)
ATTITUDE:
Metal to the unknowing seems like some sort of cult. But as we all know it isn't because I'm sure
you all work normal jobs, don't worship Satan, have friends who don't like metal and enjoy the taste of Aeroplane Jelly and PaddlePops.
However the "community" are quick to outcast new people. Take for instance WF. People fuck up with grammar mistakes
and you take digs and it scares them off. People slag of bands and it starts arguments.
Here are a few more things in no order:
You are all friends and don't make new ones often so that limits expansion.
Gig posters and band names are most of the time offensive, also naming every gig is silly
people cant take you seriously with names like Abomination's of Pestilence, Gethering of Evil, End of Days and Brutally Designed i mean c'mon.
(This is only an observation of the titles not the bands or the promoters :))
Lastly... same bands, same songs and same shit. People want variety. Too many low key gigs.
Alot of mainstream metalheads these day like dirt bikes, cars, other music and trendy clothes. Think outside the box.
If you want more people, appeal to everyone not just dudes who wear black band shirts and listen to underground metal.
Love Louise :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
(Concerned Metal Punter)
-
So have you got any answers to the issues you brought up which seemed to be non-issues until now?
Who gets offended by a gig or band name, really. MAYBE if you're putting up posters in a retirement home.
-
So have you got any answers to the issues you brought up which seemed to be non-issues until now?
Who gets offended by a gig or band name, really. MAYBE if you're putting up posters in a retirement home.
Non Issues??? I have displayed issues that are very legitimate and current. The answers are the opposite of the issue, I thought they were quite obvious.
Also... offended, of course! Look at some of the names, images and connotations in advertising for gigs. This may be okay for you and me but not everyone. They might not be offended but they may look at this and think "what the fuck does this has to offer me?"
-
She has very valid points though. I cringe at every single gig name cause they're all ridiculous and make the gig and all those involved come across as utterly juvenile. If there are quality bands on the bill, why make them look amateur by giving the gig a silly name?
As for variety, well there are some bands that are trying to do something different but for the last few years the Australian metal scene, in particular here in W.A, has had some obsession with extreme music like death and black metal. The result being about as low a target audience as possible. If you go on the musician connection forum you'll see about 90% of the ads on there are people looking to start/join death metal bands. If that's all that people wanna play then it obviously makes it harder for punters to see anything else. I think that's a real shame cause there must be plenty of people like me who have zero interest in death or black metal and would rather see some bands doing something a little less offensive.
-
However the "community" are quick to outcast new people. Take for instance WF. People fuck up with grammar mistakes and you take digs and it scares them off. People slag of bands and it starts arguments.
It's a fucking metal board, if people can't handle some light-hearted digs over their poor education and don't enjoy a pointless (but fun) debate over why one metal genre is better than the other, perhaps they'd be better served listening to a genre of music that doesn't polarise opinion. Like pop music, or Creedence. Everyone loves Creedence.
Also, "off".
-
However the "community" are quick to outcast new people. Take for instance WF. People fuck up with grammar mistakes and you take digs and it scares them off. People slag of bands and it starts arguments.
It's a fucking metal board, if people can't handle some light-hearted digs over their poor education and don't enjoy a pointless (but fun) debate over why one metal genre is better than the other, perhaps they'd be better served listening to a genre of music that doesn't polarise opinion. Like pop music, or Creedence. Everyone loves Creedence.
Also, "off".
LOL :D
-
The opposide? So Grotesque should change their name to 'the electric shoes' because they're concerned about offending people who don't have any intention to go to their gigs? I agree with you about maybe bands like 'Death fucking cunt' and 'cuntscrape', but for the most part it's a non-issue for any other metal band in Perth, furthermore it'd follow suit with the rest of Australia's culture shift to change such things to accomodate those easily offended by pictures of scarely looking people and illegible fonts, OoOoOoOhHhHh!! Suffice to say I don't think it's a problem that would warrant a complete overhaul, after this is what this topic is about, nor would it see a noticable change in attendance numbers. Anyone neglecting to go to a gig for the first time because of a band or gigs silly name is NOT going to be a loyal 10 yr veteran of the metal scene anyway.
As for gig names, they (usually) suit the main genre of the gig. Brutal bands = brutal show name, not unlike any shows or festivals interstate and overseas. This is possibly getting a little watered down when people do this for bands maybe not applicable to the theme/genre, that's when I would think it looks silly.
-
Also, what I was thinking with solutions was more along the lines of a more pro-active solution like those that posted before you - rather than just implying bands and people should just stop doing it.
-
I think I may have created a monster here, but please keep with this people. There ARE some ideas stepping forth here, and contributions from a new member to boot, welcome sister.
-
I don't think anyone suggested anything along the lines of bands changing their names or their music, I think the feeling was that there could be more bands and more gigs that cover other areas of the metal spectrum, and I don't mean just the other extreme I mean everything in between, such as what you guys are doing and what we're doing, right through to the wankiest and cheesiest stuff imaginable.
I still think the gig names thing is ridiculous. It seriously makes me cringe when I see some of the gig names that are being thought up. Maybe I'm not really in any position to criticise cause I don't get into the type of music of these gigs anyway but to me it comes across with disillusioned, eyeshadow wearing, fingernail painting 14 year old kid vibes. Will there be any evil people at that Castle gig? Will the 30th of January really be the end of days? Will there really be some kind of enslavement ceremony on March 6th? And what the fuck is an abomination of pestilence anyway? It all just sounds like silly fantasies of misguided youths and really doesn't lend itself to being taken very seriously.
-
I agree.
The Bands names are a non issue, it's the names of the gigs.
A lot of it has to do with the fact that promoters are now putting on the gigs more & not the bands themselves. If the band puts on the gig then it used to be billed under their name.
This is one of many reasons the Soundworks gigs always look more pro, they are billed as "Soundworks Presents" & that looks professional right away.
Promoters are better off picking a band on the bill as a headliner & using that to promote the gig. The only time it is necessary to really name a gig is if the gig is genre specific ie: a deathmetal bill, grind bill, etc or if it a say half death half black metal bill going head to head.
For fucks sake if you are going to name a gig, make the name relevant to the bands on the bill. Dysie is a good one for this. Although the names may be @ times humorous, they tend to be relevant to the bands playing & what the gig is envisioned to be about etc.
-
I don't think anyone suggested anything along the lines of bands changing their names or their music, I think the feeling was that there could be more bands and more gigs that cover other areas of the metal spectrum, and I don't mean just the other extreme I mean everything in between, such as what you guys are doing and what we're doing, right through to the wankiest and cheesiest stuff imaginable.
I still think the gig names thing is ridiculous. It seriously makes me cringe when I see some of the gig names that are being thought up. Maybe I'm not really in any position to criticise cause I don't get into the type of music of these gigs anyway but to me it comes across with disillusioned, eyeshadow wearing, fingernail painting 14 year old kid vibes. Will there be any evil people at that Castle gig? Will the 30th of January really be the end of days? Will there really be some kind of enslavement ceremony on March 6th? And what the fuck is an abomination of pestilence anyway? It all just sounds like silly fantasies of misguided youths and really doesn't lend itself to being taken very seriously.
Oooh, right then. That's good. :P
Yeah I agree, some more diversity in local metal would really freshen things up, it could really do a lot to bring in the numbers, i've also noticed that most gigs these days with big names aren't very diverse lineups and back in the day (not very long ago mind you) the most diverse lineups of good names used to bring the biggest crowds.
These names can be seen to an extent for some as being lame, but then it's pretty much just as lame having no theme or name for a gig in some cases anyway. :-[
-
You guys need to get haircuts and tight pants, then you'll be set.
-
I think there is already diversity in local metal. I think the big difference is that many of them are venturing outside of the 'wf' market audience and thats why we havent heard of them...
-
Walt Disney quite famously said "Do you what you do so well that when people see what you do they walk away and tell other people that they should see what you do." All a band has to do to make themselves a sucsess is make them themselves marketable. And then you'll be riding The Gravy Train. But we don't make music for the purpose of earning an income do we?
People seem to get shitted off when I say this, WRITE BETTER SONGS. International bands will kick your ass. They maybe your heroes, your influence, and hopefully one day your peers, but they are still your competitors.
Stop thinking local.
-
I think I may have created a monster here,
And not out of PVC and paper mache for a change!
-
I don't think anyone suggested anything along the lines of bands changing their names or their music, I think the feeling was that there could be more bands and more gigs that cover other areas of the metal spectrum, and I don't mean just the other extreme I mean everything in between, such as what you guys are doing and what we're doing, right through to the wankiest and cheesiest stuff imaginable.
I still think the gig names thing is ridiculous. It seriously makes me cringe when I see some of the gig names that are being thought up. Maybe I'm not really in any position to criticise cause I don't get into the type of music of these gigs anyway but to me it comes across with disillusioned, eyeshadow wearing, fingernail painting 14 year old kid vibes. Will there be any evil people at that Castle gig? Will the 30th of January really be the end of days? Will there really be some kind of enslavement ceremony on March 6th? And what the fuck is an abomination of pestilence anyway? It all just sounds like silly fantasies of misguided youths and really doesn't lend itself to being taken very seriously.
Oooh, right then. That's good. :P
Yeah I agree, some more diversity in local metal would really freshen things up, it could really do a lot to bring in the numbers, i've also noticed that most gigs these days with big names aren't very diverse lineups and back in the day (not very long ago mind you) the most diverse lineups of good names used to bring the biggest crowds.
These names can be seen to an extent for some as being lame, but then it's pretty much just as lame having no theme or name for a gig in some cases anyway. :-[
Yeah right on WarNick.From my memories of the local gigs in perth, when i lived there, were that the diverse gigs got the big crowds.
I reckon its the go because you get the crew rocking up to watch their prefered genre and you get a bunch of people who can get into most sorts of metal who can happily watch whatever band comes on next.
I like to think that most metal fans get into a diverse range of music, or can at least appreciate diversity :-\
-
And what the fuck is an abomination of pestilence anyway?
Sounds like a standard Aleksi gig - Something of Something.
-
I agree and disagree to a certain extent. When I was putting on gigs at The Whitesands I'd find 8 fairly diverse bands and get a lot of people through the door. One of the last gigs I organised was Hell on Earth at The Castle with The Furor, Maximum Perversion, The Uncreation and Wardaemonic. It was the first extreme line-up gig at The Castle and it was packed. I cant remember how many payers there were now but it was quite possibly the biggest turnout i've seen there.
-
Yeah dude, but at the Castle "Packed" is about 110 people. And even then, I have only seen that a handful of times.
-
of course it was packed. you had a grind band.
even i'd leave the house for that.
fuck, even nihilist would consider it.
-
of course it was packed. you had a grind band.
even i'd leave the house for that.
i second that :headbang:
I remember when i first got into the local scene some 10 years ago now the gigs had pretty diverse line ups. I remember when Dave Lance was a promoter he'd throw on a hardcore or punkish band on the bill and people in that scene would show up, so you had people in the door and the bands had money in their pockets.
And Jez i remember meeting you in blockbuster in Morley about a year or so ago and you saw me in a marduk shirt, and you came strait over to me and gave me a copy of a Neverborn cd. I was fucking stoked by that and not having a copy of that cd (sorry) i pretty much played it to death and since been a fan !!
-
I remember that. Good to see that it went to a good home.
Pick up the new CD you cheap prick. ;D
-
People reckon I used to go to lots of gigs. The real reason was because Maxi P used to play so much.
8)
-
Hehe.. thanks Matt :)
We have now all sucmbed to the diseases of the aged.... creaking joints, fading memories, stage-four piles and grotesque liver spots.
We're about to record a new bunch of songs though. Who knows, maybe we'll try to get a gig after that's done and make fools of ourselves yet again :P
-
I don't think anyone suggested anything along the lines of bands changing their names or their music, I think the feeling was that there could be more bands and more gigs that cover other areas of the metal spectrum, and I don't mean just the other extreme I mean everything in between, such as what you guys are doing and what we're doing, right through to the wankiest and cheesiest stuff imaginable.
I still think the gig names thing is ridiculous. It seriously makes me cringe when I see some of the gig names that are being thought up. Maybe I'm not really in any position to criticise cause I don't get into the type of music of these gigs anyway but to me it comes across with disillusioned, eyeshadow wearing, fingernail painting 14 year old kid vibes. Will there be any evil people at that Castle gig? Will the 30th of January really be the end of days? Will there really be some kind of enslavement ceremony on March 6th? And what the fuck is an abomination of pestilence anyway? It all just sounds like silly fantasies of misguided youths and really doesn't lend itself to being taken very seriously.
+1
No disrespect to Paula and Rowland, but the title of this weekend's Castle gig ('Gathering Of Evil Perth People') just transcends lameness. A gig named after a "cult" of pseudo-rebellious faggoth kids? Please.
-
No disrespect to Paula and Rowland, but the title of this weekend's Castle gig ('Gathering Of Evil Perth People') just transcends lameness. A gig named after a "cult" of pseudo-rebellious faggoth kids? Please.
That one has nothing to do with me. I'm the guy who brought you the wonderful "Best in the West" shows though ;)
I try to have some form of theme running through the bands for my shows, which often lends to a certain name. Gig names aren't necessary, but they can add flavour to a show. Whether it's a good flavour or not though, that's up for debate.
-
Ok, so some gig names are pretty gay, but if you're a metal head that has never been to a local gig and you see a poster with a bunch of metal band names, is the name of the gig really going to stop you from going? As a metal head, would you REALLY give a fuck? You'd be more interested in the fact that there's bands playing that you've never heard of before.
It seems like putting gigs on is too easy these days, too many "promoters" working for themselves instead of working together, it's self destructive, hense the apparent decline. As for the names of gigs targetting emo fags, from a marketing perspective it's a pretty good move, considering the newer metal demographic these days :P Children are our future!
I don't really have anything against the Castle as a venue, if there's even one band I really want to see playing there, I'll go. But it's a double edged sword - let's say (and use your imagination here people) that a gig of regular Castle playing bands starts pulling 110+ (or whatever capacity), how long before the vast majority of punters, old and new, are put off by the skanky toilets, confined space and uber long waits at the bar? Not to mention management/security/staff struggling. Sure, big numbers are great, but the venue has to suit if you want people coming back.
Having said THAT, when I first started going to gigs, it didn't matterwho was playing, it didn't matter where the gig was, it didn't matter what the name of the gig was. All that mattered was seeing some of my favourite bands play (and maybe heckling the shit ones), drinking with mates and coming home broke. There were two stage gigs on at the Grosvenor/Raffles/Whitesands, even HQ, with 8 odd bands of varying genres playing. No-one bitched about having to watch/play with offensive bands, no-one had a cry over getting heckled or abused on/off stage, no-one sulked over having to watch/play gigs with another band of a different genre, no-one refused to play/go to a gig under a crap title because they're so far up their own arses that they think they're better than that.
In answer to your question Jez: I don't even remember what it was. I just know that you can't expect big things from Perth.
Edit - I got so caught up in my own bullshit I forgot to mention the only thing worthwhile saying.
Trying to get people's opinions on what they want from local music is a good way to improve it, but limiting it to WF regulars is capturing a small percentage of people. If they're motivated enough to go to a gig, perhaps with a little incentive (a cd, a prize, drink giveaways) why not throw a questionnaire or suggestion opportunities to everyone at the door and encourage them to put their 2 cents in too. Return their ideas, get a free drink?
Also, at international/interstate gigs where numbers are high, offer discounted entry or beer vouchers to unfamiliar faces, aswell as gig flyers. A bad example (ok maybe not bad, just not so successful considering I don't think they exist anymore) of good promotion is rocking up to gigs that you have no interest in other than to promote your band. Dave Harrison used to do it for Black Steel, even at blackmetal gigs. An hour or so of your time - a few more heads through the door?
-
But it's a double edged sword - let's say (and use your imagination here people) that a gig of regular Castle playing bands starts pulling 110+ (or whatever capacity), how long before the vast majority of punters, old and new, are put off by the skanky toilets, confined space and uber long waits at the bar?
Amps seems to be the most popular venue for metal gigs at the moment, they have shit toilets and shitty waits at the bar.
-
I think a lot of it is lazyness. People just won't go to a gig unless it is in the middle of the city. The Civic is great, nobody will go there, the Charles is great, nobody will go there, the Hydey backroom is great, nobody will go there, the Railway Hotel is great, nobody will go there, Metro Freo is great, nobody will go there.
Regardless of the lineup, nobody will go to gigs at these venues which is a shame cause they're really good.
-
I think a lot of it is lazyness. People just won't go to a gig unless it is in the middle of the city. The Civic is great, nobody will go there, the Charles is great, nobody will go there, the Hydey backroom is great, nobody will go there, the Railway Hotel is great, nobody will go there, Metro Freo is great, nobody will go there.
Regardless of the lineup, nobody will go to gigs at these venues which is a shame cause they're really good.
Not to mention all of them are accessible by public transport as well.
-
After 12am?
-
After 12am?
Yeah, that's another thing. I like to have a drink at metal gigs, but I often can't get home unless I drive. Even at the Amps, which is highly accessable, I have to drive home, unless I want to leave early to catch the last train out of the city... and I really don't want to be riding alone, while slightly drunk, on the Armadale train line at night.
Most of those venues are easy to get to, but it's getting home afterwards which is a problem.
-
This is a good point. As I'm from Clarkson(aka balga by the sea) I have to admit that in the last few I have gone to very few gigs due to the distance factor. I have to have the event planned in advance and pack rations! Hahaha ;)
-
That was the value of the Kexby street Manor and similar houses of ill-repute. You use them as a home base, leave your car there and scab a lift to the gigs or bus it to the traino, get smooshed at the gig and make it back the same way. Crash a few hours and get up and go home. The perfect cycle of self destruction.
The best thing about that is you dopn't - like I do - sit around watching to time tick past trying to get motivated to get up and make the trek to a gig. With all those people there, someone will always take pole position as a motivator, and you all end up there. There are plenty of places around town that are close to train lines (if Necessary) and able to work as a hub for group exodus to gigs, shit I would even volunteer my own place.
I guess that's why the MetalBus was such a brilliant idea.
-
I have gone to very few gigs due to the distance factor.
Same here. I have recently moved to Ravenswood, and it's not even really worth catching the train from Mandurah because by the time you drive over there, and jump on a train you could be half way to Perth. Not to mention that it's expensive to catch the train unless you are a student.
-
city living..can't complain ;D
-
city living..can't complain ;D
I use to live in Leeming, and that's when I use to go to a lot more gigs.
-
I think that distance is probably a defining factor. Perth as a city is quite spread out and going out somewhere to drink and then taxi home is expensive and oftening time consuming waiting for a taxi. I used to go to a shirtload of gigs at the whitesands/lookout (down the road from me in scabs), now..hardly any.
Offer free taxi vouchers at gigs?
-
Yeah, I'm never keen to travel far either.
Make the next gig a house party sleepover.
-
Hahahaha!! Yeah, I used to live in scabs before clark'o, and thats when I was out at gigs every w/e there was a decent one on.
-
yeah it is a defining factor at least in a sudden decision change regarding attending a gig...
-
Also, at international/interstate gigs where numbers are high, offer discounted entry or beer vouchers to unfamiliar faces, aswell as gig flyers. A bad example (ok maybe not bad, just not so successful considering I don't think they exist anymore) of good promotion is rocking up to gigs that you have no interest in other than to promote your band. Dave Harrison used to do it for Black Steel, even at blackmetal gigs. An hour or so of your time - a few more heads through the door?
Thats a great example of being willing to put in the miles as far promotion of your band(if you have the time). At any gig Dave would be happy to talk about his band and metal in general to anyone regardless of sub-genres. Harro is such a trooper :headbang:
-
Yeah, I'm never keen to travel far either.
Make the next gig a house party sleepover.
You're just hoping it'll turn in to an orgy of sweating, long-haired men. :P
-
...the problem reprised :hmm:
-
A few more random thoughts..
I think, maybe, for bands you have to decide where you want to go.
Are you happy with it being a 'hobby'? Play the occasional gig and maybe fund a cd/ep? If family and work commitments limit you, then this is your situation. Nothing wrong with it, but you wont get 'far' in the grand scheme of things and play to friends and a few die hards.
Do you want to make a career playing music? Best of luck to you, its not impossible but you might have to take a similar route to Damo and play in cover bands 3/4 nights a week. At least you'l be getting great at your chosen instrument, gaining valuable stage time to shake any stage fright and play a variety of different crowds and venues.
Is gaining national and international recognition a goal? Maybe getting an album contract? Again its not impossible. Allegiance, Alchemist (signed to relapse), iNFeCTeD (signed to Shock/Thrust), N.I.L (signed to Roadrunner). Promote yourself well and play the hell out of ALL shows regardless of the size of the crowd as you never know who is watching..
Also, guys if you have momentum RUN WITH IT or you will lose it. Your brand new cd is released: awesome. Promote it, send it out for review and plan some more gigs to give the new tracks airing.
Even if you're doing minimal stuff, update your audience/friends/fans with things ANYTHING to keep you in peoples minds. A small blog/article with photos showing you jamming/recording etc I love Chaos Divine and am glad for their success, but I cant help but fell they've lost a bit of momentum after the AHMA win by not doing much (although i know there are many factors involved here)
-
I'm pretty sure Chaos are writing.(Maybe they can confirm that.)
Plus they did a bunch of shows in Europe before AMAs so...
-
all i can say is, going back several years ago, alot of people were going to gigs and running a muck in the pit, now i dont see much of that going on at all.
I think alot metal fans here have changed.
a different generation and alot more laid back.
Metal appears more than ever to have gone underground. You see nothing of it anywhere, unless youre looking for it.
What you dont see can hurt you.
right or wrong, thats how i see it.
-
all i can say is, going back several years ago, alot of people were going to gigs and running a muck in the pit, now i dont see much of that going on at all.
I think alot metal fans here have changed.
a different generation and alot more laid back.
Metal appears more than ever to have gone underground. You see nothing of it anywhere, unless youre looking for it.
Underground? You reckon!? Metal seems more mainstream than today than ever before...
You're right about the crowds though, there are a lot more guys with surf brand t-shirts and neat hair cuts at gigs who are more likely to nod vaguely and take facebook photos than recklessly smash in to people whilst attempting in vain to not spill a beer.
-
a suggestion here for the whole travel expenses thing is an idea I got off my older brother, who goes out to the pub frequently with about a dozen mates, they pick one guy/girl each time to play designated driver and pay for his/her meal/entry/soft drinks/fuel ect all night I mean yeah its a downer but think about it. 1 driver + 4 passengers thats 5 punters right there.
Now trying not to get onto a bandwagon but sometimes I find the mix of bands to be a bit off. Out of the shows that I have been to I still think Soundworks nail it with the line up for example the xmas show that they did back in 08 with Chaos Divine and Dyscord playing back to back shows as headliner and support and then with Claim The Throne and another band as the other support was two of the best shows Id been to that year. Where is with other promoters and no offense intended to them they kinda aim for the more mainstream "scene" styles like metalcore/hardcore ect and through them on as supports before a band like Gallows for Grace or something,this just doesnt add up to me because the punters die off by the time the main act comes on. Im not saying stick the same bands on the same bill every weekend but just be very careful on the genre crossing. This could be a reason for the decline of mosh crowds as well. I remember venturing to one show where a punter claimed he would leave the show if he couldnt hardcore dance to chaos divine.
I think Perth has a very good music scene with alot more potential and this is just my 2c I could be wrong but hey just something I observed.
-
All I picked up from that was you don't consider Chaos Divine and Dyscord "mainstream" or "scene".
:rofl:
-
Senton, you're absolutely right that after the AMA's it would have been beneficial to follow up with some kind of tour or something, but I guess such activities are limited by time and money. With 3 of the guys in the band being students and therefore having no money, it became virtually impossible to tour at will, especially when band funds had been well and truly depleted after the European tour and then the AMA event itself.
The genre crossing thing has proven to be very hit and miss, mostly miss. People just don't seem to be willing to go to a gig unless they're semi interested in 3 out of the 4 bands on the bill. When there are four bands, two of one style and two of a completely different style, all it seems to do is alienate punters from each scene. In my experience it just hasn't worked at all. A solid lineup of closely related metal styles has always seemed to result in far more successful gigs.
Nihilist, I'd rather be mainstream than some deluded underground elitist knob any day of the week. To me, achieving mainstream success while still making credible and fulfilling music is the ultimate goal of every band, whether they admit to it or not. If your favourite band Macabre were offered a million dollar record deal, they'd fucken take it, and they'd be right in doing so.
-
Senton, you're absolutely right that after the AMA's it would have been beneficial to follow up with some kind of tour or something, but I guess such activities are limited by time and money. With 3 of the guys in the band being students and therefore having no money, it became virtually impossible to tour at will, especially when band funds had been well and truly depleted after the European tour and then the AMA event itself.
That's when Arts WA quick response grants are the go, a band of your stature and accolades would piss it in.
-
Nihilist, I'd rather be mainstream than some deluded underground elitist knob any day of the week. To me, achieving mainstream success while still making credible and fulfilling music is the ultimate goal of every band, whether they admit to it or not. If your favourite band Macabre were offered a million dollar record deal, they'd fucken take it, and they'd be right in doing so.
The subject matter of their lyrics means that will never happen, that's the path they chose. I'm sure they'd take a million dollars to do what they do, but that simply won't happen, so your analogy doesn't make any sense.
They make a decent living regardless I am sure. Despite all their fans being "deluded underground elitist knobs".
Besides all of that, I like some "mainstream" bands, I just thought it was hilarious that that dude didn't consider Chaos Divine and Dyscord to be among the mainstream.
-
Dyscord are actually pretty heavy these days I reckon.
-
To me, achieving mainstream success while still making credible and fulfilling music is the ultimate goal of every band, whether they admit to it or not.
I repute.
I have no interest in achieving mainstream success while still making credible and fulfilling music. Music is an art form.
What motivates one person or band is not a motive for all.
-
Nihilist, I'd rather be mainstream than some deluded underground elitist knob any day of the week. To me, achieving mainstream success while still making credible and fulfilling music is the ultimate goal of every band, whether they admit to it or not. If your favourite band Macabre were offered a million dollar record deal, they'd fucken take it, and they'd be right in doing so.
The subject matter of their lyrics means that will never happen, that's the path they chose. I'm sure they'd take a million dollars to do what they do, but that simply won't happen, so your analogy doesn't make any sense.
100%
If you really do want mainstream success, you'll have a serious think about the genre first :P
-
Nihilist, I'd rather be mainstream than some deluded underground elitist knob any day of the week. To me, achieving mainstream success while still making credible and fulfilling music is the ultimate goal of every band, whether they admit to it or not. If your favourite band Macabre were offered a million dollar record deal, they'd fucken take it, and they'd be right in doing so.
The subject matter of their lyrics means that will never happen, that's the path they chose. I'm sure they'd take a million dollars to do what they do, but that simply won't happen, so your analogy doesn't make any sense.
They make a decent living regardless I am sure. Despite all their fans being "deluded underground elitist knobs".
Besides all of that, I like some "mainstream" bands, I just thought it was hilarious that that dude didn't consider Chaos Divine and Dyscord to be among the mainstream.
Matt is completely right. That was a ill founded comment. Macabre is one of my favourite bands of all time, and having followed them for over 15 years, I have noticed the pride they take in releasing their works on the OWN independent record label, Decomposed Records. This allows them complete artistic freedom. I honestly don't believe that, in the incredulous event they were offered a big-time deal, that they would accept the offer.
As far as "heavy music" sounds are concerned, I would think that Chaos Divine and Dyscord sit very comfortably in the more 'mainstream' sounding section of the genre. Some one name me a gigging metal band from Perth that sounds MORE mainstream?? Maybe something like Voyager?
(NOTE: I'm not intending the use of "mainstream" to be derogatory. You could replace that word with "accessible". Mainstream sound often leads to some form of success. Personally I find it boring and predictable, though)
-
Wank wank wank, I don't think mainstream is a derogatory term it just means you're boring and predictable. Macabre are a commercial success who appeal to a mainstream audience. Out of all the 'heavier' bands I can think of Macabre are the most popular to an audience other than metal heads. Of course they wont sell out because they don't need to they already make money. And fuck anyone who says they're not after commercial success because they're full of shit.
-
tell that to the thousands of cunts recording black metal in their room
-
Yeah, non-metal fans love Macabre. It's all I ever hear them talking about!
Did you hear them on Nova last week? Man, it was amazing! It made me wanna get up and dance!
-
Exactly! I always thought Macabre were under-rated in the metal world, let alone the rest of the music listening public.
A lot of people have heard of the name, but I barely know anyone who actually listens to them.
I would say (out of 'heavier' bands) either Napalm Death or Carcass would be the ones that average "rock" fans would have heard of and been regarded as "popular", not Macabre.
-
Caramel Corpse?
-
Caramel Corpse?
;) Bingo!!!
-
caramel corpse haha ... like Macabre, not in the minds of "hard rockers" Seps is though
-
Macabre have short hooky songs with funny lyrics and vocals you can actually understand. I know a lot of people who hate metal in general but like macabre because it's catchy and it's funny. Napalm Death and Carcass people wont listen to unless they like metal or heavy rock because they find it boring and the riffs aren't poppy enough.
-
^This is why Macabre consistently sell more concert tickets, albums and t-shirts than the likes of Napalm Death and Carcass.
They're a chart-topping sensation!!
They're the name on everyone's lips!
-
I agree that when I play people Macabre, most people do actually get into them because they do play a lot of catchy music with amusing lyrics that can mostly be understood. This is why I love them.. they're talented as fuck and funny as fuck.
But I also agree with Dan that Macabre seem to be under-rated in the metal scene, let alone the entire music industry. They won't get offered a million dollar deal, so there's no point in arguing whether they'd accept it.
Keep debating it though, because all this talk of my favourite band is turning me on.
-
you are deaf! ;D
-
That is actually 50% correct.
-
^This is why Macabre consistently sell more concert tickets, albums and t-shirts than the likes of Napalm Death and Carcass.
They're a chart-topping sensation!!
They're the name on everyone's lips!
Please be quiet now Nihilist fan boy, maybe when you get an opinion of your own you will be able to better make sense of it better. We're not talking about a metal audience (the people who will buy the merch) we're talking about everyone else. So basing how like-able Macabre are to a none metal audience by projecting the actions of a metal population onto the general public is just plain retarded. Your point is null and void.
-
nihilist fan girl
:'(
That aside, I still can't see them garnering a reasonably-sized non-metal fanbase. It's one thing to say "oh yeah, this isn't so bad; hell, you can even sing along!", but it's another to actually go and buy an album (unless you're drunk, in which case different rules apply).
They're just too weird.
-
Senton, you're absolutely right that after the AMA's it would have been beneficial to follow up with some kind of tour or something, but I guess such activities are limited by time and money. With 3 of the guys in the band being students and therefore having no money, it became virtually impossible to tour at will, especially when band funds had been well and truly depleted after the European tour and then the AMA event itself.
Didnt mean to come across as having a dig man, its more dissapointing that no promoters or none of your contacts could have taken advantage of the situation (plus rating highly on national radio polls) and offered you guys a couple of shows or something.
-
That is actually 50% correct.
...go on... :hmm:
-
He's either 50% deaf in both ears or 100% in one. I'm going with the 50%.
-
All I picked up from that was you don't consider Chaos Divine and Dyscord "mainstream" or "scene".
:rofl:
what I was trying to say is the genre crossing is a hit and miss, being successful like these two bands have been recently is not becoming mainstream its expanding your fan base and coverage and being successful at what you do. Both bands have great musicians, write music that is both heavy,sometimes catchy and have alot of luck marketing themselves they also have great crowd interaction on and off stage.
Instead of standing around your mates trying to act brutal go up to someone wearing your bands tshirt and talk to them, drink a beer talk about music and other bands with them and what they thought about your show tell them about your next one. I have been at work/uni several times and ran into members from both chaos and dyscord and they have never not once turned around and walked away from a conversation. Ive have been to several shows before and believe that Neverborn, Sight Transcend, Malignant Monster and Gallows for Grace are really starting to get good at the interaction of the newer fan base as well off stage. One of my first memories at a show when I was 15 was having a talk with Cain about the band.
Its the niche market of music that shouldnt be thrown onto the same bill as a band that doesnt even fall close to the same genre but is more popular. For example I remember people not being fond of the idea of Behemoth being supported by Job for a Cowboy. The same idea should be looked into when getting a popular core band to support a more underground headliner.
-
He's either 50% deaf in both ears or 100% in one. I'm going with the 50%.
You had a 50/50 chance and you still missed out.
Being wrong is like your secret special skill or something. You are talented.
For the record for anyone who wants to stab me before I know it, it's the right ear. Now the only question is... am I telling the truth or am I misleading you so I can stab you myself?
what I was trying to say is the genre crossing is a hit and miss, being successful like these two bands have been recently is not becoming mainstream its expanding your fan base and coverage and being successful at what you do. Both bands have great musicians, write music that is both heavy,sometimes catchy and have alot of luck marketing themselves they also have great crowd interaction on and off stage.
Is it just me or did you just give a list of reasons that proved how they are mainstream while trying to argue they're not? I can't even respond to that without laughing.
I'm not debating whether the people in these bands are talented or whether they're great guys because they give reach arounds. I just said their music is mainstream. It is. They know it is. It's the music they enjoy, and it's the music that they play. Simple.
I love that one little sentence can create so much lively debate over fuck all. 8)
-
Let me get this straight.
It's better to completely isolate genres at gigs than to mix them up? That's like saying new bands shouldn't gig with established bands, coz what if they're shit? They may as well be playing a style of music you don't like.
Other than metal and booze, the major theme of gigs is socialising (how many people actually watch every single bands' entire set?). So I see a mix up of genres a good way of having a piss break and a chat with your mates when a band you dont like is on, while the real fans can do their little dances in the pit.
As for Macabre taking up a million dollar deal, aside from the established fact that they would never be offered, they wouldn't take it. They're not Metallica, they don't need the money, they don't take themselves that seriously and they've been pretty successful at plodding along for the last 20 + years without a mainstream audience for support. Coz who needs it, right? Oh....
-
He's either 50% deaf in both ears or 100% in one. I'm going with the 50%.
You had a 50/50 chance and you still missed out.
Being wrong is like your secret special skill or something. You are talented.
For the record for anyone who wants to stab me before I know it, it's the right ear. Now the only question is... am I telling the truth or am I misleading you so I can stab you myself?
I still think I was right in the first place. So I can stab you from either side I just have to be 50% quieter.
-
^This is why Macabre consistently sell more concert tickets, albums and t-shirts than the likes of Napalm Death and Carcass.
They're a chart-topping sensation!!
They're the name on everyone's lips!
Please be quiet now Nihilist fan boy, maybe when you get an opinion of your own you will be able to better make sense of it better. We're not talking about a metal audience (the people who will buy the merch) we're talking about everyone else. So basing how like-able Macabre are to a none metal audience by projecting the actions of a metal population onto the general public is just plain retarded. Your point is null and void.
I have encountered so many none metal people who have at least heard of Carcass or Napalm Death. Those bands are practically house-hold names as far as extreme metal goes. I know 60 year olds who can name Napalm Death album titles!
Macabre, however, have a very limited audience, even in the metal world. They rarely top the bill of any festival they play at (which is criminal!) and have always 'flown under the radar'. I barely know anyone who is even vaguely familiar with Macabre outside of the metal fans I associate with.
My point being, there's a big difference between throwing on a Macabre CD at a party and someone going "Yeah, this is funny... I can tolerate it; maybe even enjoy it because it's catchy" to the idea of a band that's name is so recognisable outside the metal genre that even people who've never heard them would at least recognise the name. Napalm / Carcass = MAINSTREAM; Macabre.... No.
-
Ok so it's come to the point where people have stated what they think is going wrong, how bout some of you's suggest things you would like to see or hear or whatever at metal gigs? Whatever it may be throw some shit around...Realistically please, we wanna actually achieve something here.
-
Senton, you're absolutely right that after the AMA's it would have been beneficial to follow up with some kind of tour or something, but I guess such activities are limited by time and money. With 3 of the guys in the band being students and therefore having no money, it became virtually impossible to tour at will, especially when band funds had been well and truly depleted after the European tour and then the AMA event itself.
Didnt mean to come across as having a dig man, its more dissapointing that no promoters or none of your contacts could have taken advantage of the situation (plus rating highly on national radio polls) and offered you guys a couple of shows or something.
Nah not at all, I totally agree. Even if we were offered anything I doubt we'd have been able to take it anyway since we'd spent all our money. Being poor sucks.
-
^This is why Macabre consistently sell more concert tickets, albums and t-shirts than the likes of Napalm Death and Carcass.
They're a chart-topping sensation!!
They're the name on everyone's lips!
Please be quiet now Nihilist fan boy, maybe when you get an opinion of your own you will be able to better make sense of it better. We're not talking about a metal audience (the people who will buy the merch) we're talking about everyone else. So basing how like-able Macabre are to a none metal audience by projecting the actions of a metal population onto the general public is just plain retarded. Your point is null and void.
I have encountered so many none metal people who have at least heard of Carcass or Napalm Death. Those bands are practically house-hold names as far as extreme metal goes. I know 60 year olds who can name Napalm Death album titles!
Macabre, however, have a very limited audience, even in the metal world. They rarely top the bill of any festival they play at (which is criminal!) and have always 'flown under the radar'. I barely know anyone who is even vaguely familiar with Macabre outside of the metal fans I associate with.
My point being, there's a big difference between throwing on a Macabre CD at a party and someone going "Yeah, this is funny... I can tolerate it; maybe even enjoy it because it's catchy" to the idea of a band that's name is so recognisable outside the metal genre that even people who've never heard them would at least recognise the name. Napalm / Carcass = MAINSTREAM; Macabre.... No.
LTQ Man, IYKHTR you wouldn't be in this mess.
-
Ok so it's come to the point where people have stated what they think is going wrong, how bout some of you's suggest things you would like to see or hear or whatever at metal gigs? Whatever it may be throw some shit around...Realistically please, we wanna actually achieve something here.
I thought my solution was simple.. make Maxi P play more. I'll watch any old crap, even a butchered Slayer cover, if Maxi P is on the bill.
-
I'm behind the free entry for girls idea
and the pony rides
-
Free entry for girls = Sudden influx of cross dressers.
-
To actually be able to win the hard hat in the Castle skill tester.
-
Typical W.F attitude hahahaha, 99% bitching 1% constructive input that actually helps.
The problem is staring the 99% right in their own faces hahaha.
People here need to start banding together rather than bitching over the petty shit.
We have a decline in numbers of late, so anyone with solid suggestions bring em forward. I am all for getting the local scene back on it's feet.
-
We have a decline in numbers of late, so anyone with solid suggestions bring em forward. I am all for getting the local scene back on it's feet.
Stick show flyers in suburban shopping centres to reach people who don't normally hear about them, thus bringing in fresh blood.
-
One man's bitching is another man's fun.
-
Nihilist your actually making a good point, not just for Maxi P but suggesting that bands leaning towards more grind stuff should be added to gigs..I'm sure you're not the only one with that attitude towards gigs.
And More promo indeed, Sins have attacked that idea as we should have done from the start, we were handing out flyer's at the big day out walking up to any metal looking people during karivool, mastodon and fear factory and giving them the ol "you like metal, come to this show"
such is the beauty of having a mad printer at work weve also done up a heap of posters to vandalise every bottelo we can be botherd trekking to..metal cunts love to drink. and also getting posters up in the metal sections of jb-hi-fi's and 78 records da-da's ect
Not to mention a couple other tricks we have up our sleeve..hopefully it works :hmm:
So diverse gigs and promotion...any one else wanna have a crack?
-
I'm a fan of double-stagers. The Blaze launch years ago is still one of the stand-out Perth local gigs for me.
So here's what you do:
Double-stage event
Maxi P headlining
Free entry for girls or passable cross-dressers
Done.
-
One man's bitching is another man's fun.
..."revenge is like serving cold cuts"
-
Double-stage event
Maxi P headlining
Free entry for girls or passable cross-dressers
If we can get the Castle to put in another stage, I'm all for trying that idea!
I'm going to try the others though, maybe for my April show, try something a little different.... see if that free-entry for chicks thing works or not.
Anyone got a pony they could bring in?
-
Double-stage event
Maxi P headlining
Free entry for girls or passable cross-dressers
If we can get the Castle to put in another stage, I'm all for trying that idea!
Clear out the video games section, stick a guitar in the corner, and that can be the acoustic room. And fill the main area with foam and make it a foam party.
-
Clear out the video games section, stick a guitar in the corner, and that can be the acoustic room. And fill the main area with foam and make it a foam party.
Hmmm, or free entry to chicks providing they participate in some jelly wrestling.
-
To me, achieving mainstream success while still making credible and fulfilling music is the ultimate goal of every band, whether they admit to it or not.
I repute.
I have no interest in achieving mainstream success while still making credible and fulfilling music. Music is an art form.
What motivates one person or band is not a motive for all.
I should have read your statement more thoroughly, The first two words are 'to me'.
And fuck anyone who says they're not after commercial success because they're full of shit.
I agree.
Ladies first please :)
-
The thing that fills me with despair is that it doesn't seem to matter what we do, people just don't show.
Yeah, 200 people is pretty good, but we had hundreds say they were gonna show up on facebook and so on, and then they didn't. Not just people we don't know well, but some of my best mates didn't make it to our launch even after messaging us only hours before to say they were coming down and pretty revved up. It would seem that the window between the end of work hours and 8pm is enough time to have a couple of buckets and kill off any motivation. Yet they will come over and drink piss by the pool while listening to the same bands on CD, the same music without the vibe and the chicks to stare at. It has to be the cost of going out drinking, but THAT is something we really can't fix.
-
It has to be the cost of going out drinking, but THAT is something we really can't fix.
I wonder if one of the larger promoters, such as Soundworks, could try and get some sort of promotional deal with a popular type of drink. Jack Daniels would work real well with the metal crowd. In exchange for a mention on the gig poster, the company might be able to offer the venue cheaper drinks for that night... or something.
-
How about, bring 2 people and you get in free.
That way, the one who really wants to come will do what they can do get two extra people through the door as payers.
Its almost putting the promotion into THEIR hands.
-
Apart from the high price of drinks. Most people are shit scared of going out at night because of all the violence in the citys. Especialy when someone dies from being kinghit and falling on the concrete. I think sefety is more of an issue, having said that I have walked through northbridge heaps of times after a castle gig or any gig that is not at the Amplifier to get a feed and I have never seen any violence. If I did or had been in a bad fight I would have posted it on here anyway.
Speaking of safety and drinking too much. Another thing to consider is the Fun Police. Most places You can't fuck around as much with out the bouncers jumping on You.
-
Double-stage event
Maxi P headlining
Free entry for girls or passable cross-dressers
If we can get the Castle to put in another stage, I'm all for trying that idea!
Clear out the video games section, stick a guitar in the corner, and that can be the acoustic room. And fill the main area with foam and make it a foam party.
I like the guitar idea.... force guitarists from the bands on the bill to play unrehearsed "Unplugged" songs with clean vocals after they've done their show (with mandatory shots beforehand).
Don't know about Maxi P.... I'd only go if this guy was headlining!
(https://www.wf.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froxcalibur.com%2Fpix%2Fe12011.jpg&hash=daf45cfea588f18c26f39a1ca9b6f6cbc023e551)
-
I'd definitely go to more gigs if Maxi Priest was available. A few more ideas:
a) Great sound!
b) Awesome picture quality!
c) Tim and Eric Awesome Show (Great Job!) on a big screen somewhere so I can just do what I do when I stay at home
d) Better riffs!
e) Feature length commentary by Doug Stanhope, Bill Hicks and Ricky Gervais
f) Run out of ideas. Good luck!
-
Another thing to consider is the Fun Police. Most places You can't fuck around as much with out the bouncers jumping on You.
Not at amps, those titchy indians dont do shit.
-
haha yeah, ive always pondered what secret martial art form they must possess...cos at first sight, nah!
-
haha yeah, ive always pondered what secret martial art form they must possess...cos at first sight, nah!
Kalarippayattu :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalaripayattu
-
looks pretty good...but how does that fair against a straight right being landed when uve just come down off one those helicopter moves...then again, maybe some pressure points are all you need as a target
-
How about, bring 2 people and you get in free.
That way, the one who really wants to come will do what they can do get two extra people through the door as payers.
Its almost putting the promotion into THEIR hands.
send a T/A out to sell tickets. might make people more commited to showing up.
-
looks pretty good...but how does that fair against a straight right being landed when uve just come down off one those helicopter moves...then again, maybe some pressure points are all you need as a target
Ninja your teaparty is over.
-
... then again, maybe some pressure points are all you need as a target
... Did you say???
(https://www.wf.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theage.com.au%2Fffximage%2F2009%2F10%2F09%2Ffevola2_wideweb__470x303%2C0.jpg&hash=0b6e8acc50229e04d23c1ec77b36facb69e842b9)
-
Best guy!
-
who the fuck? and to answer your question, yes!
-
I'm sure Juddy and Fevola had their own special pressure points for one another. I wonder if their long distance relationship will work.
-
wow that was really dumb
-
How about, bring 2 people and you get in free.
That way, the one who really wants to come will do what they can do get two extra people through the door as payers.
Its almost putting the promotion into THEIR hands.
send a T/A out to sell tickets. might make people more commited to showing up.
+1 on bring a friend deal
+1 Selling tickets before the gig. Heaps of people want to come to gigs for ages before hand but on the night cbf, having a physical ticket in your hand that you have already payed for would be a pretty good motivation to make the effort.
-
^yeah, so make it cheaper to buy in advance
even i'd probably go in for that
-
So you want not just free entry, but guaranteed entry in advance?
-
Yes, people want cheaper free entry..
-
i will accept that
-
Yeah, pay me to go and I'm totally there.
-
Ok deal. I will pay you into the next gig of MY choice. ;D
-
I'm a fan of double-stagers. The Blaze launch years ago is still one of the stand-out Perth local gigs for me.
So here's what you do:
Double-stage event
Maxi P headlining
Free entry for girls or passable cross-dressers
Done.
I'll go to that!
-
sounds like connections anyway :-\
-
^Sif
Maxi P hardly ever play there these days
-
im sure most people can afford 15$, but i guess its the price of drinks eh? they're a fuckn rip.
how about this,
buy a ticket in advance and for an extra 10bucks you get a plastic hipflask so you can...... "byo?"
mmmmwahhahaha!
-
haha yeah but i would prefer to use my pewter megadeth one!
-
would, or do :laugh:?
-
would, i havent used it yet...farking weak..now i got an excuse
-
im suprised more peeps dont do it really. i used to.
8/9 bucks a pint, or if you go to the Cas, 12 bucks for a JD and choke in a bot? now fuckn C'MON! seriously, COME, FUCKIN, ON!
GEEZ these colours are diving me CWAZY
-
diving me CWAZY
I thought that happened 20years ago. ;D
-
Hmm I have a Gentleman Jack hipflask. But I think thats a collectors item.
-
im suprised more peeps dont do it really. i used to.
8/9 bucks a pint, or if you go to the Cas, 12 bucks for a JD and choke in a bot? now fuckn C'MON! seriously, COME, FUCKIN, ON!
GEEZ these colours are diving me CWAZY
that's why i stopped using them wayhoo :clap:
-
but....but............nyaaaarghhhh.....I caaaarnt! :'(
-
^^^whatdya know they dint change colours that time eh? sweeeeet.
-
NO?
-
Get back on topic....
What options would you have for convincing the venues to lower their drink prices anyway? If you believe people are staying away from gigs because they cant afford drinks, AND if you think they all have to drink, then you could maybe wrangle a few free drink vouchers to give away, but virtually no venue around town is going to entertain the idea of lower drink prices for your gigs.
I actually tried to work something out a few years back when drinks were much cheaper (alas, people were still complaining about it then) and was told that they dont make enough in profits on alcohol to warrant dropping the price. At first I thought they were full of shit, but Ive heard it from a few places now, run by people I know and trust.
Many venues are attempting to make their money from dinners. Does this open the idea of a heavy metal dinner-dance? :)
-
Get back on topic....
but virtually no venue around town is going to entertain the idea of lower drink prices for your gigs.
ha haha, fuck no, never happen i agree man. For some reason drinks at venues are thru the roof, they dont match up to buying a bottle of JD or a carton at all.
Does this open the idea of a heavy metal dinner-dance? :)
This does my friend. thing is, you just never know until you try it. I think personally it would be fuckn great.
You could start the night off with drinks, a light to medium dinner, then have the supporting bands maybe start up towards the end of dinner service, then crank on into the night with the end acts. could work really well. be different anyway. change is good.
will be coming down to check out your gig anyway man. see you there.
Deon.
-
You could start the night off with drinks, a light to medium dinner, then have the supporting bands maybe start up towards the end of dinner service, then crank on into the night with the end acts. could work really well. be different anyway. change is good.
That sounds fucking gay.
-
You could start the night off with drinks, a light to medium dinner, then have the supporting bands maybe start up towards the end of dinner service, then crank on into the night with the end acts. could work really well. be different anyway. change is good.
That sounds fucking gay.
yeah, it does a bit eh? :-[
-
Yeah, gay.
-
You could start the night off with drinks, a light to medium dinner, then have the supporting bands maybe start up towards the end of dinner service, then crank on into the night with the end acts. could work really well. be different anyway. change is good.
That sounds fucking gay.
Hmmm, I'm not so sure, there could be something in that idea. A set of metal covers during the dinner could work out quite well.
If the Hyde Park Backroom was still open, that idea might have worked with their set up.
-
yeah, we could have played Snowball
-
First you suggest metal pillow-fight parties... now snowballing. I'm starting to worry! ::)
-
lesbian mud wrestling
-
what about another cruise like the CTT one? I didn't get to go (was too slow and it sold out).
-
First you suggest metal pillow-fight parties... now snowballing. I'm starting to worry! ::)
metal pillow fights, or Metal pillow fights? dont wanna get hit with those puppies. it gotta hurt
-
was told that they dont make enough in profits on alcohol to warrant dropping the price. At first I thought they were full of shit, but Ive heard it from a few places now, run by people I know and trust.
What the fuck are they making money out of then? Fridge magnets?
Don't be so gullible.
If they weren't making good money out of alcohol, they wouldn't be selling it would they.
-
if making your middies $1 cheaper doubles your customers, then surely it's a good move?
-
No. Profit Margin is pretty important.
-
You could start the night off with drinks, a light to medium dinner, then have the supporting bands maybe start up towards the end of dinner service, then crank on into the night with the end acts. could work really well. be different anyway. change is good.
That sounds fucking gay.
Hmmm, I'm not so sure, there could be something in that idea. A set of metal covers during the dinner could work out quite well.
If the Hyde Park Backroom was still open, that idea might have worked with their set up.
Well, I figure most of the guys on this forum are getting on a bit like myself :) , and probably wouldn't mind getting some dinner or something beforehand - making a night of it which becomes more of an 'event' the older you get.
If the venues are going to be enticed by extra dinners sold, maybe something can be struck up in the near future.
Ill look into it a bit more. I reckon an all inclusive price for dinner, entry and a few free drinks would be awesome (depending on the package price, of course)
-
was told that they dont make enough in profits on alcohol to warrant dropping the price. At first I thought they were full of shit, but Ive heard it from a few places now, run by people I know and trust.
What the fuck are they making money out of then? Fridge magnets?
Don't be so gullible.
If they weren't making good money out of alcohol, they wouldn't be selling it would they.
oh yeah mate, they be fuckn killing the sow for sure. Well, we can buy a keg for x amount of dollars, they'd be getting one for alot less, and considering a pint is about 9 smackers in a pub, you dont even need to bother crunching the numbers to know they are making a killing.
dirty assed dogs. they need a good washing.
with a wire brush.
-
Exactly. If a bar doesn't make fucking good money out of selling alcohol, I'd like to know what the fuck they are making money out of, considering that's all they fucking sell.
How fucking stupid can you be.
-
No. Profit Margin is pretty important.
yeah, but profit margin on beer is meant to be pretty high, right?
like the cost price is sfa?
-
What the fuck are they making money out of then? Fridge magnets?
Don't be so gullible.
If they weren't making good money out of alcohol, they wouldn't be selling it would they.
How fucking stupid can you be.
Using your analogy, why would petrol stations sell petrol they make bugger-all out of?
...Because they are a PETROL STATION.
And have you ever wondered why they look more like supermarkets these days? Because they have to to stay alive.
So why bother putting on meals if its profitable enough just by selling drinks? Because its not profitable enough anymore just selling drinks, when you consider the reduced numbers of people willing to go out and drink and the added overheads and expenditures attached to pubs. Venues pay a shitload in taxes, licenses, wages and all other assorted crap.
-
Because its not profitable enough anymore just selling drinks,
I dunno about that, the profit margin alone on Coronas in liquor stores is around double cost price and when bars flog single stubbies for $8 that racks up quite a bit especially when they get meathead cockstains through the door who have no idea what beer actually tastes like so they drink that watered down mexican semen
-
Yes, but when youre paying your inflated price for your drink, youre doing it to cover the hordes of people who dont drink as much these days, because they either cant afford to or cant risk it with work, double demerits, drink driving, etc.
-
I, like most people, don't bother eating at pubs because the mark ups on their food are even more ridiculous than their drinks (which is pretty tough to do!).
100 people drinking vs. 10 people eating.
It's still pretty fucking clear what they're making their money out of.
-
i just bring my pre-made mi goreng to the pub
-
i just bring my pre-made mi goreng to the pub
dont forget the hip-flask brother. gotta break that baby in sometime.
i guess Damo, when you talk about stubbies and bottled shit pubs might get a little more fleeced than say the keg.
But, thing ive noticed lately is that more and more pubs arent serving keg beers. Maybe its just me i dunno, but went to the Lefty the other day and they dont sell keggers at all! WTF. unless it was because it was Sunday. fiik.
but in all honesty, is it really the reason people dont go out as much??? idk. there's just as many going out as ever if you ask me.
I dont think the price of piss has anything to do with it.
-
I'm always a pubs worse nightmare, i go, dont drink alcohol, and usually refuse to buy softdrinks because of the fucking ridiculous prices - seriously....they sell a 250ml glass of coke for the price of a 2 liter bottle
granted the mighty quinn do some good priced meals, $18 for a plate of food that is good and almost impossible to finish unless you starve youself before hand
-
I'm always a pubs worse nightmare, i go, dont drink alcohol, and usually refuse to buy softdrinks because of the fucking ridiculous prices - seriously....they sell a 250ml glass of coke for the price of a 2 liter bottle
granted the mighty quinn do some good priced meals, $18 for a plate of food that is good and almost impossible to finish unless you starve youself before hand
I hear you Jono. You will usually find you don't even get 250ml as most of it is packed with ice. I was charged $7 for a pint of Coke at the Rocket Room, most of it was ice and I swear it was Pepsi.
-
I'm always a pubs worse nightmare, i go, dont drink alcohol, and usually refuse to buy softdrinks because of the fucking ridiculous prices - seriously....they sell a 250ml glass of coke for the price of a 2 liter bottle
granted the mighty quinn do some good priced meals, $18 for a plate of food that is good and almost impossible to finish unless you starve youself before hand
I hear you Jono. You will usually find you don't even get 250ml as most of it is packed with ice. I was charged $7 for a pint of Coke at the Rocket Room, most of it was ice and I swear it was Pepsi.
man that just makes me fuckn angry eh. 7 bucks? If youre not drinking, cant you say youre the skipper? that used to be the thing, you'd get softies for free.
-
I'm always a pubs worse nightmare, i go, dont drink alcohol, and usually refuse to buy softdrinks because of the fucking ridiculous prices - seriously....they sell a 250ml glass of coke for the price of a 2 liter bottle
granted the mighty quinn do some good priced meals, $18 for a plate of food that is good and almost impossible to finish unless you starve youself before hand
I hear you Jono. You will usually find you don't even get 250ml as most of it is packed with ice. I was charged $7 for a pint of Coke at the Rocket Room, most of it was ice and I swear it was Pepsi.
man that just makes me fuckn angry eh. 7 bucks? If youre not drinking, cant you say youre the skipper? that used to be the thing, you'd get softies for free.
I usually hold my car keys in my hand most of the time whilst I'm out, I don't know why, it's just habit. But no bar tender has asked me if I was driving to offer me free soft drink.
-
Yes, but when youre paying your inflated price for your drink, youre doing it to cover the hordes of people who dont drink as much these days, because they either cant afford to or cant risk it with work, double demerits, drink driving, etc.
Haha, it's a lovely supply/demand model. Supply doesn't change, but demand goes down... usually you'd want to lower the cost, but instead, why not increase the price in response to people not being able to afford it?
-
Because now they can make the same amount of money with less staff and less punters to break shit.
-
I'm always a pubs worse nightmare, i go, dont drink alcohol, and usually refuse to buy softdrinks because of the fucking ridiculous prices - seriously....they sell a 250ml glass of coke for the price of a 2 liter bottle
granted the mighty quinn do some good priced meals, $18 for a plate of food that is good and almost impossible to finish unless you starve youself before hand
I hear you Jono. You will usually find you don't even get 250ml as most of it is packed with ice. I was charged $7 for a pint of Coke at the Rocket Room, most of it was ice and I swear it was Pepsi.
man that just makes me fuckn angry eh. 7 bucks? If youre not drinking, cant you say youre the skipper? that used to be the thing, you'd get softies for free.
I usually hold my car keys in my hand most of the time whilst I'm out, I don't know why, it's just habit. But no bar tender has asked me if I was driving to offer me free soft drink.
ha ha ha, yeah well.
-
There are a heap of taxes that bars have to pay, so although it might look like they're making a whole bunch of money selling overpriced drinks, they're not. They make their money by selling a LOT of drinks, or through some other means, such as cover charges. The Castle for example, constantly struggles to stay afloat while trying not to rip people off with their drink prices, despite charging $9 for a jacks and coke.
Lower drink prices aren't really going to make a difference getting new people to come and see a local metal show. You go to a show to see the bands, not to drink. If it was the drinking you wanted you could stay at home, drink and put on a cd. You go out for the live show. Cost really isn't a valid excuse for not turning up.
-
Yes, but when youre paying your inflated price for your drink, youre doing it to cover the hordes of people who dont drink as much these days, because they either cant afford to or cant risk it with work, double demerits, drink driving, etc.
Haha, it's a lovely supply/demand model. Supply doesn't change, but demand goes down... usually you'd want to lower the cost, but instead, why not increase the price in response to people not being able to afford it?
supply demand are two sides of the sword...economics is easy and needs no maths
-
Lower drink prices aren't really going to make a difference getting new people to come and see a local metal show. You go to a show to see the bands, not to drink. If it was the drinking you wanted you could stay at home, drink and put on a cd. You go out for the live show. Cost really isn't a valid excuse for not turning up.
They might not help in getting new people in but it'll certainly help to KEEP people coming... Villa is a perfect example - only way you'll see me there now is if the lineup is unbeatable cos $9 for a stubby is fucking criminal.
You go to a show to see the bands, not to drink. If it was the drinking you wanted you could stay at home, drink and put on a cd. You go out for the live show. Cost really isn't a valid excuse for not turning up.
Hardly the point - people like to do BOTH, yeah some people might be skippering etc but the vast majority of people are there to sink some piss AND watch the bands.
-
Yeah, local gigs and heavy drinking go hand in hand!
I agree that a line-up has to be fucking amazing to justify expensive drinks.
There should be more drink specials.
-
or the drinks need to be classy to suit the line-up and the patrons or they'll walk out and head to andaluz
-
I do think drinks are a factor... if the venues were interested in getting people in they would do drink specials, happy hour for the first hour even would be enough to tip the scales for some people (and get more people in for the opening bands). I remember going to nights at Navigators (hahaha showing my age) when they had $2 bourbons - but you could only get one at a time and had to have the right change. The bourbon was watered down like shit (I remember having $20 in change but being sober and broke several hours later) BUT it got a ton of people in.
-
This is a very drawn out conversation.
Good bands in a good venue brings punters.
Granted I don't go to as many shows anymore but with the amount of international bands coming to our isolated little poo town I'd say it is quite healthy.
-
Okay, I normally just look at the wa gigs section and a few of the general discussion threads but I've finally decided to give in an read this. I'm about half way through but I just wanna say:
but imagine plastering every local IGA, supa valu, deli and bottle shop in the suburbs with local gig posters
I put a poster or two up for one of my gigs at a local IGA... and two people turned up, who had never been to a local gig before. This sort of stuff does work, but it takes a lot more effort. Before I meet some local bands and started to visit WF, I really had no idea that we even had any metal bands here in Perth.
To be successful, it would need to be an organised co-operative effort. Divide the map up, mark off the target locations, each participant claims a zone close to where they live or work. If black and white homeprinted A4 is ok (don't see why not), everyone uploads their gig flyers to a particular location, and every say Wednesday or Thursday each participant prints out a few of each of them and takes them down to their local locations. If everyone did three or four or five supermarkets or delis or whatever, it wouldn't take too long and there'd be pretty good coverage.
This sounds good to me. I'd probably be in, especially if i get around to buying a new printer. as for the posters themselves, i suggest instead of just printing on white paper, get a block of coloured paper from places like crazy clarks, you usually get about 4 different colours, print on that. posters like the ceremony of enslavement can easily be edited so the red areas are white and print that on the red paper. saves ink and isnt blotchy like most print outs covering large areas.
Organise gigs where skimpies can be arranged = problem solved. :P
Speaking of, if you want to see chicks and have live music, its mostly rock and punk stuff but there is the variatease gigs with live burlesque performers. Maybe we could organize something along those lines but with metal bands sometime!?
I've tried a few times to introduce the rock band followers to the metal scene with mix genre gigs but I'm still a little new to it all. I think if I try if again I need to book Heavy rock and light metal, try to bridge the gap.
that also brings me to the issues people have with the gig names.
Gig posters and band names are most of the time offensive, also naming every gig is silly
people cant take you seriously with names like Abomination's of Pestilence, Gethering of Evil, End of Days and Brutally Designed i mean c'mon.
(This is only an observation of the titles not the bands or the promoters :))
(gathering of evil perth people btw is exactly what it was... evil perth people, if you read the thread, was a cult the gig was a gathering of. AND no, i don't care what anyone thinks of VF or 'cults', its a group of awesome people I know who came to the show and the gig had a good turn out so it looks like the most recent lamest gig name didnt negatively effect turn out that much so I'd say, non-issue)
when it comes to spreading the word about gigs, it helps to have a gig name to remember which gig you're talking about. I've already mentioned 2 just now but it they didn't have names I'd have to look up what dates they were because the date would probably become the gig name. gigs without titles are usually gigs with a headlining act for EP launches and things but for smaller gigs, the last band is just the last band, not the headlining act. Bit silly naming a gig after them just cos they're last when not many people know them!
And maybe if there was something else fun to do while they're there... like um... fuck...
Speed-dating. Face painting. Arts and crafts. Palm reading. A photo booth. One of those things where you text a message to a certain number and it comes up on a big screen. Pony rides. Spray tanning. Free spinal checks.
The castle has an arcade room! ;)
How about some sort of newsletter/mailing list? Sent out every week/2 weeks/month/whatever, it could give a list of upcoming gigs, updates on bands (eg new songs), etc. It would mean that people who are not as active on this site are still up to date with whats going on.
If drum or xpress dont have one yet they should. maybe WF should set one up. i'm sure theres plenty of us that would put some effort in to help set that up and keep it going. I'd be one. fasterlouder and metalobsession do some but i think we need a more specific one. one just for perth metal maybe?
-
Good bands in a good venue brings punters.
If a band plays in a bar and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound? ???
Whether bands are good is often up for debate - I think there's some great local bands in Perth and yet others don't agree. And we're pretty much stuck with the venues we have unless someone wins lotto and builds Perth Metal Mecca(tm). So if people have noticed a decline in numbers, there must be something else that can be done to help improve the situation right?
-
If a band plays in a bar and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound? ???
Yes.
If a band is good people will go see them, Simple.
-
I agree. People here are complaining that they haven't achieved their musical goals. If your band and more importantly your music is that good people will pay to see you. In fact if it's good enough some-one will pay you to play your music all over the world. You can promote all you like and it may bring you attention, but if your music isn't anything special then people will move on quickly. Organising cheap beer at your gigs is hardly going to help your live performance, write better songs or record great albums.
I'm all for bringing more people to local gigs but personally I think this thread is kind of dumb.
-
I think the decline is due to the amount of gigs and the cost of drinks. Who can afford to go see bands every weekend and pay the $$$ for alcohol?
I usually take $100 to each gig and once it's gone it's gone. To do that twice a week is a bit rich. Hence why people are waiting for their favourite bands to be on the bill rather than attending shows with one of their favourite bands and 3 relatively new bands...A while back gigs were few so we'd go to any show pretty much, now personally I wait for a few of my favourites to be on the same line up before I will attend...Makes good listening and worth the $$$ spent...
-
How about, bring 2 people and you get in free.
That way, the one who really wants to come will do what they can do get two extra people through the door as payers.
Its almost putting the promotion into THEIR hands.
This sounds like a good idea, I don't know if all other venues let bands have names on the door too but if I were a band, I would offer these to people who help promote your gigs. normally their names are put on the door just before the doors open, so tell the people to get to the venue, first 5 to have brought at least 2 friends gets their name on the door?
-
If a band is good people will go see them, Simple.
Not.
People need to know the band is playin -, and that is to do with clever organization, timing and good promotional skills, which sadly many good bands are lacking these days because they think their music is all that matters.
Bands need to work smarter, not necessarily harder.
-
I can't hear anyone over the sound of my heart bleeding for bar owners paying all those damn taxes while driving $100000 cars.
-
dont ask me of the venue, i guess it'd have to be outside somewhere, but i always thought a once or twice yearly metalfest here with Perth metal bands would go off.
Im talking like a half day/half night thing.
we'd be talking alot of bands here, and im thinking if it was advertised properly it could work.
Well you'd soon fuckn find out how big, or not big, metal is here atm.
If you've got most bands here playing it, youre gonna get an answer either way.
i might get slamed for this, but there needs to be more going on than just metal bands ya know? i dunno what, but fuck me, maybe it could be an opportunity for people with other things/projects, not necessarily music realted, to make an appearance and try to get some interest/business going.
obviously it has to fit with the whole theme of the day. eg tatto show, local chopper builders latest bike build on show etc. You scratch my back i scratch yours shit ya know? We'd be all doing each other a favour. At the end of the day its all about advertising, getting the word out.
Just throwing an idea out there. Someone throw some more on it.
-
I can't hear anyone over the sound of my heart bleeding for bar owners paying all those damn taxes while driving $100000 cars.
tax is not a such a dirty word after all.
-
and a lot of bands, especially the newer ones, don't realize that it's more up to them to hype up their shows than promoters.
The castle being a more underground venue than others, doesnt have a base crowd of annoying clubbers or boys looking get laid or drunk or both, people come to the castle purely for the bands. sometimes new bands will play at one of the other venues first and think they're good because there were people there then they come to the castle saying give us a gig, we pull crowds, but they dont or barely do, promote their gig. so, they wonder where the people are and ask the staff the usual things like 'is this always a quiet night of the week for you guys?'.
Then there's bands that seriously pull their weight in promo and even merch but there's something missing. I think its lack of public interest in the local bands. It probably doesn't help that everyone has moved over from myspace to facebook while most bands just stay on myspace promoting to dead personal accounts and fellow band accounts, they need to make a facebook page or group, have the link to their myspace, invite all the fans and friends.
Its a lot easier to hype your band on facebook than myspace ever was, more people are on facebook than i think there ever was on myspace. and for some reason they don't ignore event invites as much on there either.
Another idea i had recently for bands was to take a photo from the stage of your crowd all hyped up, post it on myspace and facebook, tag as many people as you can and they'll tag the rest, people are vein, they love sing themselves in photos the next day, if bands did that at gigs maybe people would come hoping to be in the photo next time, like the kids that go to sin hoping they'll bump into the photographer and see their photo in the xpress or drum or online somewhere.
Also, don't hide backstage or get there just for you set then leave, you have to go in and make new friends, tell them about your next show to look you up on the net when they get home.
-
dont ask me of the venue, i guess it'd have to be outside somewhere, but i always thought a once or twice yearly metalfest here with Perth metal bands would go off.
Im talking like a half day/half night thing.
we'd be talking alot of bands here, and im thinking if it was advertised properly it could work.
Well you'd soon fuckn find out how big, or not big, metal is here atm.
If you've got most bands here playing it, youre gonna get an answer either way.
i might get slamed for this, but there needs to be more going on than just metal bands ya know? i dunno what, but fuck me, maybe it could be an opportunity for people with other things/projects, not necessarily music realted, to make an appearance and try to get some interest/business going.
obviously it has to fit with the whole theme of the day. eg tatto show, local chopper builders latest bike build on show etc. You scratch my back i scratch yours shit ya know? We'd be all doing each other a favour. At the end of the day its all about advertising, getting the word out.
Just throwing an idea out there. Someone throw some more on it.
Trasharama was an interesting idea, we had a whole stack of amateur films and one band but we had the band play at the end, it would have been better having the band in the intermission. BUT maybe if some film students got together with some bands, made a music video for each band and had that music video play during the intermission before that band plays?
so maybe, film student's personal project for about 10 min, then their music video project for the band for 3 mins or so, all while that band sets up, then they play a 30 min set then the next film student's project. it would be non stop entertainment all night and all the uni students would show up and discover local music while supporting thei fellow students, the bands get a music video....
I emailed a few uni campuses around the time we had the last trasharama night, one got back to me about a possible future event but hopefully we'll work somthing out with them.
-
If a band is good people will go see them, Simple.
Not.
(https://www.wf.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi302.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn101%2Fneddavid%2Fborat_not.jpg&hash=d9bc8d319b22db87ff1879a22e9de0ba6cc2f7bd)
-
dont ask me of the venue, i guess it'd have to be outside somewhere, but i always thought a once or twice yearly metalfest here with Perth metal bands would go off.
Im talking like a half day/half night thing.
we'd be talking alot of bands here, and im thinking if it was advertised properly it could work.
Well you'd soon fuckn find out how big, or not big, metal is here atm.
If you've got most bands here playing it, youre gonna get an answer either way.
i might get slamed for this, but there needs to be more going on than just metal bands ya know? i dunno what, but fuck me, maybe it could be an opportunity for people with other things/projects, not necessarily music realted, to make an appearance and try to get some interest/business going.
obviously it has to fit with the whole theme of the day. eg tatto show, local chopper builders latest bike build on show etc. You scratch my back i scratch yours shit ya know? We'd be all doing each other a favour. At the end of the day its all about advertising, getting the word out.
Just throwing an idea out there. Someone throw some more on it.
This has been done a few times at the now-defunct Grsovenor back room, It used to feature a whole swag of metal bands from 1pm right through till midnight. It was done once a year and used to get decent crowds.
-
dont ask me of the venue, i guess it'd have to be outside somewhere, but i always thought a once or twice yearly metalfest here with Perth metal bands would go off.
Im talking like a half day/half night thing.
we'd be talking alot of bands here, and im thinking if it was advertised properly it could work.
Well you'd soon fuckn find out how big, or not big, metal is here atm.
If you've got most bands here playing it, youre gonna get an answer either way.
i might get slamed for this, but there needs to be more going on than just metal bands ya know? i dunno what, but fuck me, maybe it could be an opportunity for people with other things/projects, not necessarily music realted, to make an appearance and try to get some interest/business going.
obviously it has to fit with the whole theme of the day. eg tatto show, local chopper builders latest bike build on show etc. You scratch my back i scratch yours shit ya know? We'd be all doing each other a favour. At the end of the day its all about advertising, getting the word out.
Just throwing an idea out there. Someone throw some more on it.
This has been done a few times at the now-defunct Grsovenor back room, It used to feature a whole swag of metal bands from 1pm right through till midnight. It was done once a year and used to get decent crowds.
Fuck I remember those shows. It needs to happen again. Either once or even twice a year. Hell maybe 4 times hahaha. I think @ least twice a year, say summer & winter.
Those good ole day big events were the shit. Bands were more about helping eachother out & healthy competition, ea band would try to blow all the others off the stage. These days there is W A Y too much bitching, there is still comradry, but it used to be W A Y better.
-
Fuck I remember those shows. It needs to happen again. Either once or even twice a year. Hell maybe 4 times hahaha. I think @ least twice a year, say summer & winter.
Those good ole day big events were the shit. Bands were more about helping eachother out & healthy competition, ea band would try to blow all the others off the stage. These days there is W A Y too much bitching, there is still comradry, but it used to be W A Y better.
I thought there was one being organised for this March, at a dance studio or something?
The hardest part I reckon would be finding a suitable, willing venue, and getting enough funding to properly advertise the event. A government arts grant might work for that though. Although it's not the normal stuff that Soundworks do, they've got the knowledge and connections to make it work. If they're not interested, I wouldn't mind looking into getting something like this set up, maybe for next this winter, or next summer, depending when applications for grants need to be in by.
-
I think the scene is fair. Most bands in Perth have the respect they deserve. Some people\bands from Perth have worked hard enough to earn an international reputation for themselves. It takes a lot of dedication, learning and skill. Again I say lower drink prices may bring more people to gigs but it wont give a lasting and respectful audience. IF PEOPLE DON'T THINK YOUR MUSIC IS THAT GREAT THEY WON'T COME TO SEE YOU.
Iron Maiden isn't famous for selling cheap beer. Cheaper beer prices probably had nothing to do with Morbid Angel's Alters of Madness or Emperor's In the Nightside Eclipse. People would still pay to see these bands if no alcohol was available. There are very few bands in Perth that can claim this.
Eg.
now personally I wait for a few of my favourites to be on the same line up before I will attend...Makes good listening and worth the $$$ spent...
Comments like this are scattered throughout this thread.
Music matters!
This whole thing reminds me of a story about shadows in a cave.... :)
-
If people want extra entertainment and the venue is cool with it im more than happy (actually would be fucken honoured) to do fire at gigs. With at least 7 of us spinners we could get a decent show going, plus when i drink/get high with fire i usually end up running a mini spinning academy teaching randoms who want to learn. Just an idea from outside the box.
-
dont ask me of the venue, i guess it'd have to be outside somewhere, but i always thought a once or twice yearly metalfest here with Perth metal bands would go off.
Like Against the Grain in Adelaide. It's been going about 5 years ago, the first year it was a couple of bands with Lee from Double Dragon's mum cooking sausages on the BBQ, but it's really gotten pretty big.
http://metalasfuck.net/zine/articles/2009/against-grain-v-festival-founder-lee-gardiner-bigger-and-more-diverse-ever
-
Fuck I remember those shows. It needs to happen again. Either once or even twice a year. Hell maybe 4 times hahaha. I think @ least twice a year, say summer & winter.
Those good ole day big events were the shit. Bands were more about helping eachother out & healthy competition, ea band would try to blow all the others off the stage. These days there is W A Y too much bitching, there is still comradry, but it used to be W A Y better.
I thought there was one being organised for this March, at a dance studio or something?
The hardest part I reckon would be finding a suitable, willing venue, and getting enough funding to properly advertise the event. A government arts grant might work for that though. Although it's not the normal stuff that Soundworks do, they've got the knowledge and connections to make it work. If they're not interested, I wouldn't mind looking into getting something like this set up, maybe for next this winter, or next summer, depending when applications for grants need to be in by.
If you need a hand mate, i would love to be involved.
Count my band in too.
-
I can't hear anyone over the sound of my heart bleeding for bar owners paying all those damn taxes while driving $100000 cars.
tax is not a such a dirty word after all.
just an evil concept
-
If people want extra entertainment and the venue is cool with it im more than happy (actually would be fucken honoured) to do fire at gigs. With at least 7 of us spinners we could get a decent show going, plus when i drink/get high with fire i usually end up running a mini spinning academy teaching randoms who want to learn. Just an idea from outside the box.
lol remind me not to be around you when you're drunk/high and playing with fire.
-
I can't hear anyone over the sound of my heart bleeding for bar owners paying all those damn taxes while driving $100000 cars.
tax is not a such a dirty word after all.
just an evil concept
Helloooo Mr Right-wing!
-
What were reading here:
Dude A: Drinks are too expensive man.. Its about the Drinks..
Dude B: Pre-sell tickets/Bring one get one free/Tix Tix Tix
Dude C: Names of gigs are gay/No Women/Kthnx
Bottom Line:
Good bands attract good crowds..
Prime example? UTI album launch Friday night. The the crowd in that room rose and fell like the tides.One set you'd see 20-30 people rocking out the next wall to wall punters.
Drinks were 12 bucks each shit was still expensive it was still a sausage fest but the good band pulled the punters and all bands were heard.If not front and centre out in the yard.Good times were had music was heard and money was made.
Yes the local scene needs support and this could come in alot of forms which have been outlined here.
To the bands that would like to see a change in there crowd numbers.. bribe, cheat, steal, suck dick, call favours do whatever it takes to get your band heard.. Get busy, get exposure.. listen to feedback and act on it. if your shit sucks find out why and change it.Basically if you want to make money. Sell out. want to be an individual and write what you like? Respect.But you cant take that stance and then question the community when people dont show.
Caps.
Amps.
Rocket Room.
This will be your domain. It is in places like this people will hear you because:
A) There moden
B) Secure
C) Centralized
D) Exposed/Advertised
Soundworks obviously know this and hold a vast majority of there shows at these venues. They dont throw around "limited time offers" or cheap gimmicks in order to get people in they just line up good bands and people walk in.
Gone are the days were people pony up for a cause. Everything is give and take and music is no different.
-
^I agree with this RE: the venue choice
I think I've been focusing too heavily on how to make gigs at The Castle more appealing, because yeah, I'm already pretty much down with the other venues if the band is right.
-
I can't hear anyone over the sound of my heart bleeding for bar owners paying all those damn taxes while driving $100000 cars.
tax is not a such a dirty word after all.
"
just an evil concept
Helloooo Mr Right-wing!
"wings" are just as stupid a concept, i am on no wing...as such the propents of taxing can pay a larger share for their "educated" views, since they have such an attraction for such legal plunder...as if! :)
-
I've been to amps and couldn't help but notice all the clubbers wondering in and out. i hear the venues stay open as a club after the gig and these people wonder in early and usually when its a metal show wonder back out n come back later. they're not there for the music. they're there to get drunk and laid. like the drunk that gave me and my friend the eye and then pinched my butt and almost got knocked out for it. I so rarely bump into people like that at the castle because its nice and underground. only the regulars, the bands and people that follow the bands go there. I think it shows how well a band is really doing when they pull a crowd at a place like that rather than a club like amps. And don't places like amps not allow bands until they are the kind of band that pulls a crowd at a place like the castle? the smaller venues give these bands a leg up, and if the bands take that and make the most of it, pulling their weight in promo and on stage, they go places, then they get all snobby and most most dont come back to where it all started.
OH and neverborn, I got one of those free cds at a HQ gig when i was there taking photos with red! I still have it somewhere. I ripped the music to the computer and played it and other local stuff to friends, but i keep the CDs safely put away ^.^ My treasures.
-
I have interpreted the above post as;
"The Castle is a better venue for metal compared to the Amplifier Bar".
Let me respond with this;
(https://www.wf.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.e-imagesite.com%2FFiles%2FXzibit_AG0369401765.jpg&hash=24d4a36cd4908af47997d3b21e6a2ccc9d35f384)
-
I have interpreted the above post as;
"The Castle is a better venue for metal compared to the Amplifier Bar".
Let me respond with this;
(https://www.wf.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.e-imagesite.com%2FFiles%2FXzibit_AG0369401765.jpg&hash=24d4a36cd4908af47997d3b21e6a2ccc9d35f384)
Hahahahaha the best!
-
And don't places like amps not allow bands until they are the kind of band that pulls a crowd
Not true.. Agony played there over a year ago and we were never a big crowd band.
-
I have interpreted the above post as;
"The Castle is a better venue for metal compared to the Amplifier Bar".
Let me respond with this;
(https://www.wf.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.e-imagesite.com%2FFiles%2FXzibit_AG0369401765.jpg&hash=24d4a36cd4908af47997d3b21e6a2ccc9d35f384)
as such gigs could be at Onyx word!
-
lolololololololol
-
What were reading here:
Dude A: Drinks are too expensive man.. Its about the Drinks..
Dude B: Pre-sell tickets/Bring one get one free/Tix Tix Tix
Dude C: Names of gigs are gay/No Women/Kthnx
Bottom Line:
Good bands attract good crowds..
Prime example? UTI album launch Friday night. The the crowd in that room rose and fell like the tides.One set you'd see 20-30 people rocking out the next wall to wall punters.
Drinks were 12 bucks each shit was still expensive it was still a sausage fest but the good band pulled the punters and all bands were heard.If not front and centre out in the yard.Good times were had music was heard and money was made.
Yes the local scene needs support and this could come in alot of forms which have been outlined here.
To the bands that would like to see a change in there crowd numbers.. bribe, cheat, steal, suck dick, call favours do whatever it takes to get your band heard.. Get busy, get exposure.. listen to feedback and act on it. if your shit sucks find out why and change it.Basically if you want to make money. Sell out. want to be an individual and write what you like? Respect.But you cant take that stance and then question the community when people dont show.
Caps.
Amps.
Rocket Room.
This will be your domain. It is in places like this people will hear you because:
A) There moden
B) Secure
C) Centralized
D) Exposed/Advertised
Soundworks obviously know this and hold a vast majority of there shows at these venues. They dont throw around "limited time offers" or cheap gimmicks in order to get people in they just line up good bands and people walk in.
Gone are the days were people pony up for a cause. Everything is give and take and music is no different.
I disagree to an extent.
As good as UTI are, its not about that. Crowds are generally always higher at CD launches, so its not really a fair comparison to make to the weekly shows being put on around the place, where the problem of low crowds really lies.
Also, regarding soundworks booking those venues you mentioned. Yes, they do make good venues but its not like other bands arent ringing the very same venues making similar proposals.
The soundworks guys worked damn hard to build a reputation for their business, and that business now has currency when it comes time to booking shows. Booking agents know that well-organised shows put on by people who have had produced the goods in the past is likely to be a sure thing.
Newer/disorganised bands do not have this currency to barter with, and initially many of them would be turned away from better venues like these or left to wait months before getting their shot.
-
I have interpreted the above post as;
"The Castle is a better venue for metal compared to the Amplifier Bar".
I'm not saying any venues are better than any other venues in general, I'm saying some have qualities that others lack so it depends what you want out of a venue.
I like smaller crowds and no clubbers, i like bands pulling their weight to get people there instead of just restricting themselves to popular venues so they look good, i like the castle. :P
-
Also, regarding soundworks booking those venues you mentioned. Yes, they do make good venues but its not like other bands arent ringing the very same venues making similar proposals.
The soundworks guys worked damn hard to build a reputation for their business, and that business now has currency when it comes time to booking shows. Booking agents know that well-organised shows put on by people who have had produced the goods in the past is likely to be a sure thing.
Newer/disorganised bands do not have this currency to barter with, and initially many of them would be turned away from better venues like these or left to wait months before getting their shot.
Doesnt this just encourage bands to work that much harder to become the attention of leading booking agents ? If you cant break in on whats allready established make best effort to get in on whats allready happening.
If you have a band that puts on blow away shows and packs out smaller venues wouldnt a business extend there resources to you so that they can make some money off your ass ?
Newer bands unless well connected wont be able to jump to the top of the food chain and thats understandable but if your bringing something to the table that people like and will change there normal schedule to come and see then things can only go better from there right? Or am I thinking too simply ?
I am not familiar with the inner workings of booking agents and what or what isnt in there best intrerest and this is creeping off the topic of crowd numbers but to me not getting behind something that has potential to expand your portfolio doesnt make sense to me...
i like bands pulling their weight to get people there instead of just restricting themselves to popular venues so they look good, i like the castle. :P
Dont bands want to pull less weight ? Arnt they there to show the crowd what they have spent time and effort developing ? To see a band "pull weight" and put on a killer set is great but wouldnt you rather as a band avoid the need to motivate your audience to come and see you when the pulling power of a well organized gig and a prominent venue can do that for you?
-
If you have a band that puts on blow away shows and packs out smaller venues wouldnt a business extend there resources to you so that they can make some money off your ass ?
Yes, but you can be an absolute shit band and theyll still be interested if you can get the people through the door.
My new band pulled a good sized crowd for its first gig, and yet no one had even heard a note prior. We marketed it a certain way and it seemed to draw the attention of punters. Maybe they liked it, maybe they didnt, but the figures we generated now allow us to barter more strongly for our next show, hopefully keeping the momentum going.
but if your bringing something to the table that people like and will change there normal schedule to come and see then things can only go better from there right? Or am I thinking too simply ?
I am not familiar with the inner workings of booking agents and what or what isnt in there best intrerest and this is creeping off the topic of crowd numbers but to me not getting behind something that has potential to expand your portfolio doesnt make sense to me...
No, youve got a great concept, but the problem is that booking agents are a conservative bunch, and most arent as actively involved with the music scene as we might expect. They wont risk where they dont need to. If an established band wants a gig the same night as your new band with original concepts - you will lose out to the established act.
Having the potential to work means that its yet to prove itself - and so whether its an awesome idea or not, In my experience most agencies wont be overly interested until they can see the numbers jumping on board to come and see it.
-
/\ Thanks for the insight man... Very interesting.
-
Shows you guys how often I come on here since I've only just seen this thread. Sorry if I'm re-stating alot of which has already been said.
Anyways my 2 cents about the decline of the scene. Because it has been noticible for the past couple of years. Personally I thought it was its most strongest from 2005 till about late 2008 (06 and 07 being my fav years). There are very many factors I believe that have contributed to that.
1. Money has become tighter: We all have to agree this is one of the major factors since late 08. Many people lost their jobs around this time and a lot including myself had to make do with making a lot less money on a fortnightly/weekly basis.
2. Over-saturation: While the people who have been making less money more and more gigs have been put on, on a weekly basis. Which in turn means 2 gigs a weekend for most weekends, which then means alot of double sometimes triple booking, which then means the same bands playing constantly. In the end it means lack of interest in seeing same bands and less money for punters, promotors, venues and the bands themselves.
3. Same old shit: Kind of repeating myself from the last point but interest has started to deteriorate since same bands are always playing and alot of the new bands that come out are just playing similar shit to what others have already done. So interest is declining.
4. Not enough people checking out the new generation of bands: On the other hand even though alot of new bands aren't really doing anything much that excites the casual metal fan, there is a kind of bad attitude of alot of the regular punters these days, that if there's a new band that doesn't have one of "your mates" in it, then its not worth watching. Not only does this make it harder for new bands to be accepted, it also doesn't help Factor 2 or 3.
5. Scene has gone its seperate ways: Alot of major bands of the previous years have either disappeared, gone recording, changed their lineup or just played too much. The scene has lost alot of its closeness because the bonds have been broken between alot of mates in the scene as well and people have gone into their own little groups. No longer are we all going back to Big Mac's or someones's after gigs for a huge afters party because alot of us have changed and gone our own ways.
6. Venues: Amps has turned to shit (management, alcohol has gone up, more fags at gigs), Castle has a bad rep and warm beers, Rosemount, Civic and Charles doesn't want to do regular metal gigs, Rocket Room is a great venue but bands have a small stage, Freo is too far away for most to trek to and so on. We are used to moving venues constantly in this scene but without a venue that most punters enjoy going to regularly without having to search gig guides on WF, X-press, Drum Media or whatever the casual punter doesn't know where the fuck to go.
7. Scene needs fresher faces: As good as it is seeing how talented alot of people are in the scene playing for 2 or more bands it also means alot of others aren't given the chance to shine on some of the bills and again it comes down to people getting bored of seeing the same people up there.
I'm sure there's other reasons but these are the main ones I can think of. But I'm sure this is just a down period because their is a whole new younger generation I've noticed becoming regulars to gigs as well. And the recent Evolution Machine debut proves that their definitely is still life in the scene.
-
Allegiance used to consistently pull large crowds because they were great. The scene was far smaller with only 2-3 international bands coming through each year. While some people have brought up some good points in regard to smaller turnouts, I think what i've read in this thread is mostly rubbish.
I say this for the 3rd time. You can promote all you like but if people try your product a few times and don't like it that much then they won't go out of their way to see you again.
I've noticed people reinforcing each others delusions that it's factors outside of themselves that are responsible for poor turnouts at their gigs. When I suggest that better music is the way to go people say "Oh no. It can't be that" or simply ignore me. The truth can be confronting. Maybe your music isn't as good as you think it is.
Wake up!
-
It doesnt matter how good your music is if you cant organise a decent lineup and venue to throw your music out there.
Bands who gig just to gain crowds are kidding themselves. I could film a gig, chuck it on youtube and have it reaching more people in an hour than a local band could generate in six months.
Bands gig because gigs are fun and it lets the fortunate few see the band for what it is.
If you have good music (which is highly subjective, but whatever) then you have the potential for a good turnout on gig number 2.
With organisation, you wont even get to see gig number 1.
Also, many bands are simply lazy, and dont come to gigs with new material. This results in regular followers eventually falling away as theres nothing new for them to see from band x. This is particularly true in the metal scene, as the followers are repeat customers - theres a great loyalty amongst metal listeners. I think if the format is constantly suprising, if the band can bring new material to the table, and if they are organised enough to let everyone know that its something different, things would change.
-
I think one of the biggest reasons the decline has been so apparent recently is due to a lot of popular/successful bands recording too, if you compare the bills from early 09 to what is happening now you can kinda see a pattern develop...
-
I dont get how 'playing too much' is a factor? You like metal (or any music), the chance to see it played live once/twice a month should be a gift no? You listen to a cd at home or in the care how many times, people go see (some) cover bands in pubs playing the same sets of songs, why is it seen as bad to play often? Its a good chance to learn your craft in front of an audience and shake off the stage fright.
Also Freo isnt that far, i used to make the trek from Rockingham to the Grosevenor back room (sans kwinana freeway south) to see bands.
People are getting picky about what they spend their time and money on, so pull your pants up and write better songs :P
-
the last three posts were pretty dead on as far as im concerned too.
Its a matter of what will get done about it.
Allegiance used to consistently pull large crowds because they were great. The scene was far smaller with only 2-3 international bands coming through each year. While some people have brought up some good points in regard to smaller turnouts, I think what i've read in this thread is mostly rubbish.
I say this for the 3rd time. You can promote all you like but if people try your product a few times and don't like it that much then they won't go out of their way to see you again.
I've noticed people reinforcing each others delusions that it's factors outside of themselves that are responsible for poor turnouts at their gigs. When I suggest that better music is the way to go people say "Oh no. It can't be that" or simply ignore me. The truth can be confronting. Maybe your music isn't as good as you think it is.
Wake up!
There's a point where anything can be taken too far.
Some metal is in this category IMO.
Some metal thats being played "here" is definately in this category. How much??
Maybe we should take a poll?
This could be very intersting indeed. That, or im gonna get absolutely slammed head first.
-
There is some light in this cave.
-
Btw Jez, I think 200 payers or more at a cd launch is a good effort for a local band. I have noticed the Neverborn guys work at what they do and Darren does an excellent job of management and promotion for them.
-
Sometimes the appeal of a local gig is because it's a value-added night at the pub. You can go and see your mates at the bar, while there's a half-decent band playing.
So yes, this is why the venue itself and the price of drinks is a factor at a regular weekend gig (i.e. not a launch, not a festival, not an international band). It should be a place you actually want to go to. Some venues even Maxi P would have a hard time saving.
The Hydie was always fun to hang out at even if the bands weren't the greatest, because it just plain had a good vibe.
-
Btw Jez, I think 200 payers or more at a cd launch is a good effort for a local band. I have noticed the Neverborn guys work at what they do and Darren does an excellent job of management and promotion for them.
Yeah, Neverborn are very talented. Song writing is very fucking clever at times, i dig it.
-
The Hydie was always fun to hang out at even if the bands weren't the greatest, because it just plain had a good vibe.
Even with no bands the vibe is great. NYE is a perfect example of this. A lot of my good mates I met through going to gigs. This is the reason I sometimes go to gigs with bands that hardly appeal to me.
-
It doesnt matter how good your music is if you cant organise a decent lineup and venue to throw your music out there.
If you have good music (which is highly subjective, but whatever) then you have the potential for a good turnout on gig number 2.
With organisation, you wont even get to see gig number 1.
At the end of the day the music produced is all subject to opinion. This applies to Neverborn and their launch, afterall. 200 people at Heat or whatever they like to be called now can't be called a failure as getting numbers there for any local gig has never been an easy feet. If you're going to judge the success of your CD launch on whether you managed to break even then you need to take a good look at your budget and where you could have made things more cost effective. Either that or explore more innovative ways of recouping your losses or covering your overheads.
Also from a band marketing perspective: if you can't see what potential issues you can have from playing too frequently ie. every single weekend you will soon learn, that is if you don't have your own nose too far up your bumhole to realise.
-
Your a clever one Nick :)
-
i like bands pulling their weight to get people there instead of just restricting themselves to popular venues so they look good, i like the castle. :P
Dont bands want to pull less weight ? Arnt they there to show the crowd what they have spent time and effort developing ? To see a band "pull weight" and put on a killer set is great but wouldnt you rather as a band avoid the need to motivate your audience to come and see you when the pulling power of a well organized gig and a prominent venue can do that for you?
The venues promote the gig as a whole by advertising it on their webites and submitting the gigs to xpress n drum n things but only the bands have access to their fans specifically, people that like the band tend to follow them on myspace and facebook or are friends or evend a friend of a friend to a band member. its up to the band so spread the word of their show to those people because a venue wont text all your mates for you or send a msg through the band's websites or myspaces.
-
The problem with playing regularly is that it devalues each event in the punters eyes. Basically, if they arent feeling 100% psyched about an upcoming show, they may just leave it and catch you at the next one, knowing itll be within 2-3 weeks after.
If you dont play as often, each gig becomes more of an event and a rarer opportunity to see a band. People tend to make more effort for it, in my experience anyway.
-
Another thing there hasn't been any gig that see bands doing band covers for a while. For example a Metallica or Ironmaiden tribute night.
The metallica gig that was organised to coincide with the ST Anger launch pulled in a large crowd. Mind You the crowd thinned out after we(Centaur) finished and Blacksteel came on. Hell the crowd was fuckin huge before Scourge even started playing.
-
Was that the Black Betty's show, Nos?
-
Another thing there hasn't been any gig that see bands doing band covers for a while. For example a Metallica or Ironmaiden tribute night.
The metallica gig that was organised to coincide with the ST Anger launch pulled in a large crowd. Mind You the crowd thinned out after we(Centaur) finished and Blacksteel came on. Hell the crowd was fuckin huge before Scourge even started playing.
yeah that was a good gig...capitol and amplifier open together
-
Btw Jez, I think 200 payers or more at a cd launch is a good effort for a local band. I have noticed the Neverborn guys work at what they do and Darren does an excellent job of management and promotion for them.
Yeah, Neverborn are very talented. Song writing is very fucking clever at times, i dig it.
Thanks guys, kind words never go to waste, and Daz IS the man.
Look, 200 in the club is good for the scene at the moment no doubt. We don't feel like big failures or anything, it just feels to me like it should have been that much bigger, and it wasn't. So we can sit back and bitch at home or we can step up and let the WF crew have their say, and fuck me but haven't they just!
1. I am all for the concept of "write better material and they will come" concept, but that is easier said than done. Just speaking for MY band, we spent years working on our newer material. It went from demos on the computer to a studio rough cut to the final recording, three recordings per song, and all the way down the line we were refining, modifying, enhancing. We are writing the BEST that we can, and are proud of our new album, and all the other bands out there are making what they think is top music too no doubt. The trick seems to be to write more generic material with a solid demographic genre to aim at, like brutal death.... but the bandwagon is of no interest to some of us. So basically, write the same old shit for the same old people and you get your instant gratification, or strike out boldly into new territory and the only way you know if your material is good is to give it time to reach people. Either way, how do you really know if you need to "write better songs"?
2. Bands are in a quandry really.
You play too often, people say you oversaturate.
You play too little, you are forgotten, obsurity descends upon you.
You play too much new material, people don't know the songs and don't groove with you.
You play too much older material, people say that you play the same songs ad nauseum and that's boring.
Here's my take on it: The more we play, the more we gain supporters, so we will play just about any gig we get offered and do our best to play every gig we get as hard as we can. If that is oversaturation, I can roll with it. And we keep on writing new stuff all the time, but there is a rush in playing songs people know well and scream the words back at you, so we will continue to play plenty of our best known numbers live. Is that boring? Each band has to decide that for themselves.
3. Yep. No money, drinks costly, rough bouncers, shitty venues, blah blah blah. I don't care about that shit, I just want to know what we can do to make people not CARE about any of that shit and hit the gigs anyway. And there have been some really good ideas here. I love the internet angle you guys are talking up, the free entry for chicks, keep them coming.
-
Ummmm
Hire a hall so it can be byo?
-
That would be sweet.
-
Hire a hall so it can be byo?
What's the legality of that?
-
Donno but they do it at the hall across the road from my house all the time and don't get busted. Considering the riot squad got called in after one of the parties there a year or so ago you'd think they be on top of it if it wasn't legal.
-
Pretty sure there would be some sort of insurance involved etc unless that is covered in the cost of hiring the hall.
-
Hire a hall so it can be byo?
What's the legality of that?
ya need a liquor license whether you sell or not i think, but basicly the hall owners wont allow alot of shit. I remember doing a gig with Kin and some others years ago and lets just say, that went towards fucking it up for everyone. cops, bottles, news crews, etc.
Btw Jez, I think 200 payers or more at a cd launch is a good effort for a local band. I have noticed the Neverborn guys work at what they do and Darren does an excellent job of management and promotion for them.
Yeah, Neverborn are very talented. Song writing is very fucking clever at times, i dig it.
Thanks guys, kind words never go to waste, and Daz IS the man.
Look, 200 in the club is good for the scene at the moment no doubt. We don't feel like big failures or anything, it just feels to me like it should have been that much bigger, and it wasn't. So we can sit back and bitch at home or we can step up and let the WF crew have their say, and fuck me but haven't they just!
1. I am all for the concept of "write better material and they will come" concept, but that is easier said than done. Just speaking for MY band, we spent years working on our newer material. It went from demos on the computer to a studio rough cut to the final recording, three recordings per song, and all the way down the line we were refining, modifying, enhancing. We are writing the BEST that we can, and are proud of our new album, and all the other bands out there are making what they think is top music too no doubt. The trick seems to be to write more generic material with a solid demographic genre to aim at, like brutal death.... but the bandwagon is of no interest to some of us. So basically, write the same old shit for the same old people and you get your instant gratification, or strike out boldly into new territory and the only way you know if your material is good is to give it time to reach people. Either way, how do you really know if you need to "write better songs"?
2. Bands are in a quandry really.
You play too often, people say you oversaturate.
You play too little, you are forgotten, obsurity descends upon you.
You play too much new material, people don't know the songs and don't groove with you.
You play too much older material, people say that you play the same songs ad nauseum and that's boring.
Here's my take on it: The more we play, the more we gain supporters, so we will play just about any gig we get offered and do our best to play every gig we get as hard as we can. If that is oversaturation, I can roll with it. And we keep on writing new stuff all the time, but there is a rush in playing songs people know well and scream the words back at you, so we will continue to play plenty of our best known numbers live. Is that boring? Each band has to decide that for themselves.
3. Yep. No money, drinks costly, rough bouncers, shitty venues, blah blah blah. I don't care about that shit, I just want to know what we can do to make people not CARE about any of that shit and hit the gigs anyway. And there have been some really good ideas here. I love the internet angle you guys are talking up, the free entry for chicks, keep them coming.
Not to forget Perth Is a fucking small place too, i guess its safe to say metal is just not as popular as it used to be here.
for whatever reason, it can be fixed.
A quality venue, with regular metal nights over a fair stretch of time a year is a good start.
When i say quality venue, i mean a decent PA and sound dude, with decent acoustics and bass trapping, not a shitbox that has a fucking heratige listing, and a bunch of fucked up antique loudhailers as a soundsystem.
man, people have been getting quality sound for cheap now for years with technology as it is.
Then you roll up to a gig with some of the crap heaps they have there for sound, man you gotta be kidding.
That sorta shit's had its day, people just dont wanna be subjected to it, simple. Some of these joints actually hurt my ears and im a seasoned chicken.
-
Hire a hall so it can be byo?
What's the legality of that?
Not much. Itd be clkassed as street drinking if youre using a public place without a temporary liquor license - which incidentally is ridiculously expensive, so no one would bother paying it.
And youd have to source (and probably hire) a PA system worthy of the room and the bands, and possibly some security, given all the gate crashers these days.
Youd also be contending with Gladys complaining to the local cops about "all the ruckus" over at the hall.
-
What are the costs of the occasional license? From what I'm reading if under 250 people are anticipated, it's only $50? The website is really confusing though :(
-
Hire a hall so it can be byo?
What's the legality of that?
I've done it several times. I had to bullshit to the council a bit but it went down really well. I knew virtually everyone who came through the door. Those few I didn't know had to be vouched for by some-one I did. The bond was about $1000 which I got back too. It's usually a midnight shutdown with the venue to cleaned and totally clear by 2AM. Most councils will charge for 'setting up time' and 'event time' separately. It's been a while though and I know public liability is far more expensive these days.
-
how do you really know if you need to "write better songs"?
It's a natural progression isn't it? You apply thought to it and work at it. I'd say the new Neverborn album is better than the first. I doubt at any point you all got together and said "we need to write better songs". It's only when you lack care or attention that things go downhill. Just my opinion but everything Slayer has done since Divine Intervention has gone downhill with each album. It seems to me they just don't really care that much anymore. Hence why I didn't go to see them last time. Their songs have actually gotten worse!
-
Was that the Black Betty's show, Nos?
Nah Capitol.
-
My 2c
1. Bands should not play too many shows. Play less & put more effort into making it an event. If they did this the whole double & triple booking of gigs would stop & the quality of shows will rise.
2. STOP FUCKING DOUBLE & TRIPLE BOOKING METAL GIGS ON THE SAME NIGHT. This is REALLY irritating me now. This is splitting the scene to shit.
It is happening yet AGAIN this weekend. Just take a look @ the fucking gig guide on wf & the problem is staring you all in the face.
The fact that more internationals are touring is making things harder, then you bright sparks go & double & triple book. COMMUNICATE YOU FUCKS AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
Booking a gig on the same night as another metal bands cd launch is fucking suicide. It makes the scene look bad if the attendance is low & the venue won't give 2 shits about excuses for low patronage. This just makes it harder for bands to book gigs in the future @ those venues.
If you as a promoter have realised that you have booked a metal show on the same night that say Soundworks has booked an absolute ball tearer, then can your show & put on a rock or punk show instead. I believe that you will make more coin this way & the scene doesn't get a damaged rep.
-
I couldn't agree more with that post. The double and triple booking of gigs has become a bit of a problem lately. Once in a blue moon double booking isn't so bad. But it's happening too much on a regular basis. Also it wouldn't hurt to have a cover night once in a while. One suggestion would be an AC/DC tribute gig. Local bands playing at least one or two AC/DC covers. I'm sure most people would have missed out on tickets to see AC/DC.
-
Its not always that easy - You have to book shows well in advance, often when you dont even know there will be clashes. If you try to pull out of the gig because of a clash, dont expect to be offered one in future.
-
I just book what I'm asked to by the owner and he's been dedicating the Saturdays to metal for years and if we changed that, people that come in on a saturday expecting metal with show up be very disappointed. We do our best to book things slightly different to opposing gigs but it's hard to do. We're starting to get a bit ahead now though at the castle, we're booked up right into april. which means hopefully other promoters will see we've already booked something for those nights and with try and work around that as best they can.
I think it was said in another thread once that the castle has put its faith into the metal scene for ages now by dedicating its saturday nights to it. We don't see other venues do that. if just one venue dedicated fridays to metal, and maybe another did the same for thursdays, that'd be your weekend planned out without needing to look in the gig guide!
-
To flog the horse a little more (and I honestly couldn't give 21/28ths of a fuck how much of this has been said before in this thread) ...
The fact that there are too many gigs being put on is devaluing the scene. Simple as that. Metal gigs are a dime-a-dozen these days, and "the brutal, harsh, honest truth" is that nobody really gives a fuck anymore. Seriously, stop with the Castle metal gigs every weekend, the double (and sometimes even triple) booking is getting a bit much, as heaps of people before me in this thread have no doubt stated.
As for all the softcocks pissing and moaning about "waah waah waah, Freo's too far away", "waah waah waah, the Castle's too dingy and small, waah waah waah" - Man up and grow a set already. I live about 30 - 45 min north of the city centre, if I can get off my ass to catch one of the Railway/Swan gigs, then I'm sure most of you who say you care about the scene can as well. (Obviously, those living in remote geographical locations are exempt from being classified as the aforementioned "softcocks")
Money and drink prices - yeah, that's a valid reason I suppose. Drink prices have shot through the roof over the past year - a glass of Jack & Coke at Amps fetches $9.50 or so. Fooken unacceptable.
Man, I remember the glory days of Castle gigs almost packing the venue out as well as knowing more than 1/3 of the people who show up to a gig at the Railway. I too sincerely hope we can bring those glory days back.
-
not booking the gigs isnt going to help the scene. I'm going to keep doing my job and booking metal on Saturdays. sorry.
-
My 2c
1. Bands should not play too many shows. Play less & put more effort into making it an event. If they did this the whole double & triple booking of gigs would stop & the quality of shows will rise.
2. STOP FUCKING DOUBLE & TRIPLE BOOKING METAL GIGS ON THE SAME NIGHT. This is REALLY irritating me now. This is splitting the scene to shit.
It is happening yet AGAIN this weekend. Just take a look @ the fucking gig guide on wf & the problem is staring you all in the face.
The fact that more internationals are touring is making things harder, then you bright sparks go & double & triple book. COMMUNICATE YOU FUCKS AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
Booking a gig on the same night as another metal bands cd launch is fucking suicide. It makes the scene look bad if the attendance is low & the venue won't give 2 shits about excuses for low patronage. This just makes it harder for bands to book gigs in the future @ those venues.
If you as a promoter have realised that you have booked a metal show on the same night that say Soundworks has booked an absolute ball tearer, then can your show & put on a rock or punk show instead. I believe that you will make more coin this way & the scene doesn't get a damaged rep.
Just for the record, this saturday nights castle gig was put up before either of the soundworks gigs that night were advertised on here. I also doubt most people are gonna be whinging "Oh no, I have to choose between Dyscord & Bereavement! Oh why couldn't they be on the same bill.."
Lick my balls Simon. ;D
-
Castle Metal Nights on Saturdays don't have to be "the gig you go to when nothing else is on". They could be great.
I wish that more of the better/bigger local bands would be willing to play a few shows there. When was the last time bands like Voyager, Malignant Monster, Enforce, Chaos Divine and others played the Castle? When they DO, the play is rocking, big atmos and big sound, and it sounds fucking great. But they don't want to do it.
Ok, the stage is a bit small, but it is bigger than the Rocket Rooms' stage and the sound is better too.
So you don't get a pile of money for playing there, well fuck it, play for the joy of the Metal! I can't remember the last time we got paid to do a gig, it doesn't seem to happen anymore, but we still get up and do it as hard as we can. And it isn't just us, Mhorgl are another band that are happy to just get up and play when the Castle asks and don't sweat the details. Some of the better known bands won't play a show unless they have a guarantee of payment, but all that means is places like the Castle can't afford them. Enforce are the exception there, I know money isn't as issue to them but I still never see them on the stage for some reason. Nexus, Wardaemonic and DFC never play there these days, I have to assume it is that Dan's kit doesn't fit on the Castle stage, but what about the other bigger bands?
Remember where you came from, play the gigs for the blast not the bucks and stop saying no when the Castle asks you to play. WE bands are responsible for the turnouts there, not the Castle staff.
-
The fact that there are too many gigs being put on is devaluing the scene. Simple as that. Metal gigs are a dime-a-dozen these days, and "the brutal, harsh, honest truth" is that nobody really gives a fuck anymore. Seriously, stop with the Castle metal gigs every weekend, the double (and sometimes even triple) booking is getting a bit much, as heaps of people before me in this thread have no doubt stated.
I'm tempted to agree, this is one of the primary causes of over-saturation in my opinion. Just seems like gigs will be put on no matter what the lineup is - back in the day there'd atleast be one or two "drawcard" bands at each gig and then maybe a couple of newer bands for support. Now gigs just get filled with whatever bands will take the slots so people have less incentive to go cos they don't know any of the bands.
I'm not saying new bands dont deserve a shot at gigs but putting on lineups consisting of bands no-one has ever heard of isn't exactly a stellar way to pull a crowd.
-
Exactly.
-
not booking the gigs isnt going to help the scene. I'm going to keep doing my job and booking metal on Saturdays. sorry.
Booking out 52 saturdays a year and expecting every other promoter to work around you sure is going to make you popular.
-
Jez, a bunch of names you dropped there don't want to play the castle because their drummers refuse to play there because they don't want to setup their kits outside on the carpark bitumen. I found when organising this weekends show just how many bands drummers refuse to play there. It's neither the stage size or the money factor as the method of payment doesn't vary for bands from most other venues.
Also;
I can't remember the last time we got paid to do a gig
It's because of this that you are a retard. :P No wonder you didn't break even in your launch, you are too casual with band finances to the point where you've accepted that YOU need to pay for your CD's being made and gigs organised instead of your band's toiling over the last however long it took.
This isn't to say that your shows might have covered costs to produce the CD/launch but if you might've kept your finger on the button your expenses might've been a bit less. As much as you may think it's about the joy and the thrill blah blah blah it's also a business and at the end of the day the bands that have yet to acknowledge this are the ones floundering around wondering why they're so far out of pocket for everything and wondering where it all went wrong.
I hope you understand i'm not having a dig at you mate.
-
I don't play gigs for less than $10 000.
-
I don't play gigs for less than $10 000.
me too.
-
There is a local band Ive done a small amount of work for, who at their SIXTH gig, earnt themselves $3,000
At their nineth gig, the door take was over $11,000. Two other bands shared SOME of that cash.
No posters were printed. No flyers. One 1/4 page advert in one street press paper.
They have $15,000 in their band account now, after less than ten gigs (three of which they played for free, charity etc), and thats after paying out one member who left already.
They arent metal (close though?), but they know HOW to market themselves.
What does every "WF band" do for marketing? The same as every other "wf band"... how do you expect to stand out and create new "clients" for your "business" if you use the same old tired means of getting your name out there??
-
not booking the gigs isnt going to help the scene. I'm going to keep doing my job and booking metal on Saturdays. sorry.
yes but booking too many gigs, in which most will clash if there is one on every satday, just just just read the posts and points just made! if Rowly cut down to one satday a month, you take the other alternate satday and the ones in between can be punk/rock shows?
definitely agreed with Dan that u have to have "drawcard" bands, or a lineup with at least one so called "recognizable" bands.
though triple booked shows with one "drawcard" band on each lineup also fucks with peoples minds, asking themselves "who am i obliged to go see" if u were keen to see 2 bands that were playing diff shows on the same night.
theres not going to be a recession of new bands, everyone wants to get out there, "make it big" and be a rockstar. new bands are always going to want to play whenever they can, which also in turn helps in live experience. these shows need to be moderated in some sense of, good headliner, matching support bands and as Perry said, GOOD MARKETING.
good marketing - PLS FOR FUCKS SAKE theres not alot of effort put into pushing these shows like events. as for myself, i print a stack of posters for all our shows and put them up anywhere and everywhere i can (or am allowed haha). if most members in each band take up this guerilla tactic, it should significantly get some attention from people.
nonetheless, even this is a small step as compared to having proper ads in the xpress / drum media. Andrew Haug's section on metal should have a breakdown of the international AND local shows in perth. where is the address to submit these shows?
the Castle dont even have a weekly spot to advertise their shows (like the Railway, RR, etc), and thats probably because they get booked in such short notice. like, unbelievably short. promotions should start 2/3 months before the actual show - not booked on monday and carried out that weekend.
METALOBSESSION.NET - put your shows in there. its piss easy. i know some bands already do so.
-
DFC never play there these days
DFC are playing at brutal fisting 2, http://www.wf.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=5402.0, that's one of few metal gigs on a friday because we'll be closed on the saturday.
not booking the gigs isnt going to help the scene. I'm going to keep doing my job and booking metal on Saturdays. sorry.
Booking out 52 saturdays a year and expecting every other promoter to work around you sure is going to make you popular.
You'd have to talk to the owner about changing the way the castle has worked since before I even went there. as for the punk/rock gigs on saturdays we already do plenty of those every other night, we'd just be saturating another genre. Imo, we're one of the smaller venues struggling to keep our head above the water while venues like amps and rocket room are doing fine, maybe they should ease up a little.
-
Castle Metal Nights on Saturdays don't have to be "the gig you go to when nothing else is on". They could be great.
I agree man, except that most people are faggots and flatly refuse to attend the Castle for a myriad of reasons (most of them trivial).
That said though, what about a Castle gig with about 3 "established/renowned" bands, and one up-and-coming act? Couldn't hurt.
Jez, a bunch of names you dropped there don't want to play the castle because their drummers refuse to play there because they don't want to setup their kits outside on the carpark bitumen.
That could possibly change if drummers had 2 kits (one "good" kit and one "gigging" kit), which unfortunately 90% of drummers in this scene can not afford. From the top of my head, only Seb from Psychonaut and Adam from Episiotomy have 2 kits.
-
Castle Metal Nights on Saturdays don't have to be "the gig you go to when nothing else is on". They could be great.
I agree man, except that most people are faggots and flatly refuse to attend the Castle for a myriad of reasons (most of them trivial).
That said though, what about a Castle gig with about 3 "established/renowned" bands, and one up-and-coming act? Couldn't hurt.
theres also the rumor that the castle doesnt have foldback. apparently it has to be from the boxes at the edge o the stage or it doesnt exsist. Even those where it is set up, you should be able to hear it better, unless you're laid down on the stage. maybe if we set up prop feedback on the stage egde to make them feel better! haha.
-
Castle Metal Nights on Saturdays don't have to be "the gig you go to when nothing else is on". They could be great.
I agree man, except that most people are faggots and flatly refuse to attend the Castle for a myriad of reasons (most of them trivial).
That said though, what about a Castle gig with about 3 "established/renowned" bands, and one up-and-coming act? Couldn't hurt.
theres also the rumor that the castle doesnt have foldback. apparently it has to be from the boxes at the edge o the stage or it doesnt exsist. Even those where it is set up, you should be able to hear it better, unless you're laid down on the stage.
That's all well and good for the punters, but what about the musicians? You know, the guys who actually have to get up and play? Without foldbacks or any form of monitoring, they won't be able to hear the rest of the band clearly, or even their own instruments. And, if you can't hear yourself or the rest of the band, most of the time, you gon' play like shit.
maybe if we set up prop feedback on the stage egde to make them feel better! haha.
I imagine you're saying this in jest, but maybe, just maybe, it should be taken into consideration? Monitoring is a key ingredient to a good performance.
-
if the stage isnt big enough, then why doesnt everyone chip in and extend the cunt???? I would help. be a piece of piss really.
Set the thing up how you want it, doesnt sound like anyone else will. Im sure the owner would be thrilled.
-
...and do up the venue. i know a PA has been installed and it seems the holes in the ground are fixed, but it wouldnt hurt to repaint and some renovations.
and this time period whilst its shut down would build up some anticipation...?
-
Andrew Haug's section on metal should have a breakdown of the international AND local shows in perth. where is the address to submit these shows?
Don't even bother - Andrew Haug turned what was once a good column into a fucking waste of space... Back when Wade wrote for Drum it always contained the latest metal news and every local gig happening that weekend whereas now its not worth the fucking paper its written on. Local gigs don't even get a mention and his "news" is usually at least a month old. Certainly is an appropriate title though - he's got quite the racket going :clap:
-
...and do up the venue. i know a PA has been installed and it seems the holes in the ground are fixed, but it wouldnt hurt to repaint and some renovations.
and this time period whilst its shut down would build up some anticipation...?
yeah man, im sure alot of people have some materials and shit lying around, im sure the owner would chuck in some coin, i got a welder for framework etc, powertools and whatnot, like many others. could be done.
maybe Hatefuled can ask the manager??
-
as for the punk/rock gigs on saturdays we already do plenty of those every other night, we'd just be saturating another genre.
With the close of the Hydie, I'm sure another venue stepping up and holding Saturday night punk shows wouldn't exactly be the end of the world
-
Castle Metal Nights on Saturdays don't have to be "the gig you go to when nothing else is on". They could be great.
I agree man, except that most people are faggots and flatly refuse to attend the Castle for a myriad of reasons (most of them trivial).
That said though, what about a Castle gig with about 3 "established/renowned" bands, and one up-and-coming act? Couldn't hurt.
Jez, a bunch of names you dropped there don't want to play the castle because their drummers refuse to play there because they don't want to setup their kits outside on the carpark bitumen.
That could possibly change if drummers had 2 kits (one "good" kit and one "gigging" kit), which unfortunately 90% of drummers in this scene can not afford. From the top of my head, only Seb from Psychonaut and Adam from Episiotomy have 2 kits.
Why don't drummers bring some picnic rugs to set up their kits on?
-
(https://www.wf.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.luminousnuminous.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F01%2F3.jpg&hash=1efb6ce6f0bcd5ea0555f0110f01fb1dfecde5bd)
Because someone might swipe their picnic basket!!
-
Castle Metal Nights on Saturdays don't have to be "the gig you go to when nothing else is on". They could be great.
I agree man, except that most people are faggots and flatly refuse to attend the Castle for a myriad of reasons (most of them trivial).
That said though, what about a Castle gig with about 3 "established/renowned" bands, and one up-and-coming act? Couldn't hurt.
theres also the rumor that the castle doesnt have foldback. apparently it has to be from the boxes at the edge o the stage or it doesnt exsist. Even those where it is set up, you should be able to hear it better, unless you're laid down on the stage.
That's all well and good for the punters, but what about the musicians? You know, the guys who actually have to get up and play? Without foldbacks or any form of monitoring, they won't be able to hear the rest of the band clearly, or even their own instruments. And, if you can't hear yourself or the rest of the band, most of the time, you gon' play like shit.
maybe if we set up prop feedback on the stage egde to make them feel better! haha.
I imagine you're saying this in jest, but maybe, just maybe, it should be taken into consideration? Monitoring is a key ingredient to a good performance.
:S Maybe I didn't make myself clear? We do have foldback, it's just not in the tradition spot at the band's feet, it's on to of the big speakers at the sides of the stage pointed right at the bands' heads. where you should be able to hear it better than aimed at ya feet. I 'jest' about props on the egdes of the stage because bands dont see the foldback speakers there where they usually are and assume we dont have it.
-
How the foldback is setup at the Castle now is great, when it is used correctly :) in fact the whole PA setup at the Castle sounds awesome when its mixed right.
-
Castle Metal Nights on Saturdays don't have to be "the gig you go to when nothing else is on". They could be great.
I agree man, except that most people are faggots and flatly refuse to attend the Castle for a myriad of reasons (most of them trivial).
That said though, what about a Castle gig with about 3 "established/renowned" bands, and one up-and-coming act? Couldn't hurt.
I agree. When Chris use to orgainse the monthly metal night at the Castle, it was usually that style of gig, 2/3 known bands, and a new/up and coming band. Use to always get good numbers.
-
Castle Metal Nights on Saturdays don't have to be "the gig you go to when nothing else is on". They could be great.
I agree man, except that most people are faggots and flatly refuse to attend the Castle for a myriad of reasons (most of them trivial).
That said though, what about a Castle gig with about 3 "established/renowned" bands, and one up-and-coming act? Couldn't hurt.
Jez, a bunch of names you dropped there don't want to play the castle because their drummers refuse to play there because they don't want to setup their kits outside on the carpark bitumen.
That could possibly change if drummers had 2 kits (one "good" kit and one "gigging" kit), which unfortunately 90% of drummers in this scene can not afford. From the top of my head, only Seb from Psychonaut and Adam from Episiotomy have 2 kits.
Why don't drummers bring some picnic rugs to set up their kits on?
If a rug is all they need I'm sure one can be organized. I know people keep asking for some kind of cover from the rain out there too. I'm not sure what we could put out there that won't get stolen. Mabe install something like a projector screen? that is up out of reach and you pull it by a loop with a hook on a string and drag it over to some kind of pole with a hook when its raining?
-
Castle Metal Nights on Saturdays don't have to be "the gig you go to when nothing else is on". They could be great.
I agree man, except that most people are faggots and flatly refuse to attend the Castle for a myriad of reasons (most of them trivial).
That said though, what about a Castle gig with about 3 "established/renowned" bands, and one up-and-coming act? Couldn't hurt.
I agree. When Chris use to orgainse the monthly metal night at the Castle, it was usually that style of gig, 2/3 known bands, and a new/up and coming band. Use to always get good numbers.
Only 3 bands? how long would the sets and intermission be? most bands only have about 30 mins worth of material. especially new bands.
-
Castle Metal Nights on Saturdays don't have to be "the gig you go to when nothing else is on". They could be great.
I agree man, except that most people are faggots and flatly refuse to attend the Castle for a myriad of reasons (most of them trivial).
That said though, what about a Castle gig with about 3 "established/renowned" bands, and one up-and-coming act? Couldn't hurt.
I agree. When Chris use to orgainse the monthly metal night at the Castle, it was usually that style of gig, 2/3 known bands, and a new/up and coming band. Use to always get good numbers.
Only 3 bands? how long would the sets and intermission be? most bands only have about 30 mins worth of material. especially new bands.
Sorry, I meant, 2 or 3 well known bands/established band, and then either 1 or 2 new bands. So there was normally 4 bands playing on the night.
If there was only 3 bands playing, it was usally 3 established bands, and most established bands can pul off a 45 min set.
-
Castle Metal Nights on Saturdays don't have to be "the gig you go to when nothing else is on". They could be great.
I wish that more of the better/bigger local bands would be willing to play a few shows there. When was the last time bands like Voyager, Malignant Monster, Enforce, Chaos Divine and others played the Castle? When they DO, the play is rocking, big atmos and big sound, and it sounds fucking great. But they don't want to do it.
Ok, the stage is a bit small, but it is bigger than the Rocket Rooms' stage and the sound is better too.
So you don't get a pile of money for playing there, well fuck it, play for the joy of the Metal! I can't remember the last time we got paid to do a gig, it doesn't seem to happen anymore, but we still get up and do it as hard as we can. And it isn't just us, Mhorgl are another band that are happy to just get up and play when the Castle asks and don't sweat the details. Some of the better known bands won't play a show unless they have a guarantee of payment, but all that means is places like the Castle can't afford them. Enforce are the exception there, I know money isn't as issue to them but I still never see them on the stage for some reason. Nexus, Wardaemonic and DFC never play there these days, I have to assume it is that Dan's kit doesn't fit on the Castle stage, but what about the other bigger bands?
Remember where you came from, play the gigs for the blast not the bucks and stop saying no when the Castle asks you to play. WE bands are responsible for the turnouts there, not the Castle staff.
Thats noble and all, but why are the bands always the ones expected to make concessions for the cause?
Having a band costs money and effort and although I don't do it for money (I have 2 cover bands for that), I would like to think theres pay there for us when the hardwork has been done. I would not play for free unless there was a greater cause for doing so than 'we cant afford you'.
There is a lot that venues can being doing to make their places more attractive and palatable, and many of these ideas dont cost a cent, so where is their responsibility on bringing people in and putting in some effort? Geez, most nights theyll take a door split and all of the bar anyway, so its not like they're using their own money to pay the bands. If the band is so poorly organised that they cant even cover the supports and themselves from the door takings, then its the venues fault for taking a chance on such a band, and should have done their research a little better.
Cover bands charge a flat fee, regardless, and no one says shit about it. Then when an original band TAKES A RISK by only taking what comes in through the door, they are somehow seen as killing the profitability of the venue? Please...
If a rug is all they need I'm sure one can be organized. I know people keep asking for some kind of cover from the rain out there too. I'm not sure what we could put out there that won't get stolen.
The fact that everything gets stolen in that area is enough for me to not what to set up out there, covert or not![/quote]
-
I fail to see how increasing the stage size is going to bring more punters.
I also fail to see why inviting people to EAT OUT at a bar for $20-30 is somehow making the argument that beer is too expensive, disappear.
Ive been to some of the worlds most famous venues (cat club, roxy, whiskey a go go, gazarri's, etc). They dont have ANYTHING we dont have. Amplifier is bigger than the Whiskey. Nicer setup too.
Hundreds of bands have risen from those venues, to be extremely popular and very wealthy.
Adding two feet of stage at the whiskey, didnt assist any of those bands. They got where they are by excelling at a few things: image, promotion/networking, and sound. Luck doesnt go astray, but damn hard work can more than make up for that.
Now, look at how YOUR band markets itself. Look at the bands around you that have started to get somewhere. Work out what the difference is (and its less about musicianship or catchy tunes).
If you had the best song in the world, how you going to get people on to it, unless you get out there and shove it down people's throats. Dont be scared of promoting your band. Be bigger and better than the next band.
I'll use Voyager as an example, but they just one of a few locals. You KNOW when a Voyager gig is coming. They get themselves an interview, or a promo spot in the street press. They have a good looking poster. They dont have some stupid gig name to dilute the event. They have an image they have all worked out together. They LOOK like a band. They make a show out of every performance. You dont hear about their internal struggles, you only hear about their successes.
Now, I personally don't like Voyager. It's just not my style of music. Im sure most of Voyager hate my prefference of music too! But I can totally respect where they are coming from, and how they are succeeding. They are a tight ship. There are so many more things they could do, but, at the same time, they do sooo many things right. They are a business. You too have to think like that.
A couple years ago I made the offer to around 15 local bands... you wanna hand out flyers, I'LL PAY FOR THEM. One side will be their advert, one side, mine. They were all clients of mine, so we are helping each other. I'll fund it, you guys hand them out. Zip, zilch, none. No-one could be bothered. If bands cant be bothered handing out FREE promo for THEIR band, well, what hope do they have. (for the record, Daz, myself and Musicfinder did a run of flyers to promo WF, and it was quite successful). My most successful flyer promo, was $14,000 worth of sales for $90 in flyers.
Just over a year ago, MDV and I hosted a NYE gig. Two bands handed back $60 worth of posters, and a couple handfuls of flyers, that simply didnt even leave their cars. Why? Why would you not take free promo material, and use it to promo your band? Laziness is the only answer we could find.
Promotional work NEVER stops. I have a waiting list that is longer than two years. I can stop taking orders for guitars for two years, and still not run out of work for two people. That doesnt stop me advertising, or writing articles for the guitar magazines, or updating the website, or doing shows. Never, ever, stop promotional work.
Myspace is a virtual wasteland now, it is too saturated, and everyone's "friend" lists are too big so you get lost. Two years ago, i could send out an update, and get a whole bunch of responses. Nowadays, with 15,000 "fans" i'm lucky to get one response. Facebook is now the new cheap promo tool. For $4 a week, i get somewhere between 10,000-15,000 adverts, and every single week, i get some guy email, via facebook adverts, and he buys something for $50-100. Why doesnt your band use this advertising to market directly to your target audience? Where are you facebook BAND pages? Sharing photos after a gig? Sending out reminder emails? Sending out relevant, interesting updates? I dont see a lot of bands doing this. I see the bands who are getting somewhere do it though...
I dont care what anyone else says. I see 20-30 bands a week come through my workshop. The ONLY guys who are getting somewhere, and the guys who get out there and treat it like a business. You can wank on all day and night about how music is a passion, and you arent in it for the money. Great. Im like that with my business. Id gladly work at some hole like Bunnings, to then pay someone so I could make guitars. But, Ive worked my arse off doing promo work to back up my ability to make a guitar, so now I dont have to worry about where the dollars are coming from... they are just there.
Of course, you could disregard all this, and just work in your bedroom, writting killer riffs in between porno downloads, and hope, just hope, that your mum tells someone at work you are in a 'wicked band'. Cause yeah, thats going to work a treat! Or, better still, compare notes with other guys in bands that also cant pull a crowd... cause three heads that think exactly the same are better than one, right??
-
I also fail to see why inviting people to EAT OUT at a bar for $20-30 is somehow making the argument that beer is too expensive, disappear.
High five.
-
I fail to see how increasing the stage size is going to bring more punters.
I also fail to see why inviting people to EAT OUT at a bar for $20-30 is somehow making the argument that beer is too expensive, disappear.
Ive been to some of the worlds most famous venues (cat club, roxy, whiskey a go go, gazarri's, etc). They dont have ANYTHING we dont have. Amplifier is bigger than the Whiskey. Nicer setup too.
Hundreds of bands have risen from those venues, to be extremely popular and very wealthy.
Adding two feet of stage at the whiskey, didnt assist any of those bands. They got where they are by excelling at a few things: image, promotion/networking, and sound. Luck doesnt go astray, but damn hard work can more than make up for that.
Now, look at how YOUR band markets itself. Look at the bands around you that have started to get somewhere. Work out what the difference is (and its less about musicianship or catchy tunes).
If you had the best song in the world, how you going to get people on to it, unless you get out there and shove it down people's throats. Dont be scared of promoting your band. Be bigger and better than the next band.
I'll use Voyager as an example, but they just one of a few locals. You KNOW when a Voyager gig is coming. They get themselves an interview, or a promo spot in the street press. They have a good looking poster. They dont have some stupid gig name to dilute the event. They have an image they have all worked out together. They LOOK like a band. They make a show out of every performance. You dont hear about their internal struggles, you only hear about their successes.
Now, I personally don't like Voyager. It's just not my style of music. Im sure most of Voyager hate my prefference of music too! But I can totally respect where they are coming from, and how they are succeeding. They are a tight ship. There are so many more things they could do, but, at the same time, they do sooo many things right. They are a business. You too have to think like that.
A couple years ago I made the offer to around 15 local bands... you wanna hand out flyers, I'LL PAY FOR THEM. One side will be their advert, one side, mine. They were all clients of mine, so we are helping each other. I'll fund it, you guys hand them out. Zip, zilch, none. No-one could be bothered. If bands cant be bothered handing out FREE promo for THEIR band, well, what hope do they have. (for the record, Daz, myself and Musicfinder did a run of flyers to promo WF, and it was quite successful). My most successful flyer promo, was $14,000 worth of sales for $90 in flyers.
Just over a year ago, MDV and I hosted a NYE gig. Two bands handed back $60 worth of posters, and a couple handfuls of flyers, that simply didnt even leave their cars. Why? Why would you not take free promo material, and use it to promo your band? Laziness is the only answer we could find.
Promotional work NEVER stops. I have a waiting list that is longer than two years. I can stop taking orders for guitars for two years, and still not run out of work for two people. That doesnt stop me advertising, or writing articles for the guitar magazines, or updating the website, or doing shows. Never, ever, stop promotional work.
Myspace is a virtual wasteland now, it is too saturated, and everyone's "friend" lists are too big so you get lost. Two years ago, i could send out an update, and get a whole bunch of responses. Nowadays, with 15,000 "fans" i'm lucky to get one response. Facebook is now the new cheap promo tool. For $4 a week, i get somewhere between 10,000-15,000 adverts, and every single week, i get some guy email, via facebook adverts, and he buys something for $50-100. Why doesnt your band use this advertising to market directly to your target audience? Where are you facebook BAND pages? Sharing photos after a gig? Sending out reminder emails? Sending out relevant, interesting updates? I dont see a lot of bands doing this. I see the bands who are getting somewhere do it though...
I dont care what anyone else says. I see 20-30 bands a week come through my workshop. The ONLY guys who are getting somewhere, and the guys who get out there and treat it like a business. You can wank on all day and night about how music is a passion, and you arent in it for the money. Great. Im like that with my business. Id gladly work at some hole like Bunnings, to then pay someone so I could make guitars. But, Ive worked my arse off doing promo work to back up my ability to make a guitar, so now I dont have to worry about where the dollars are coming from... they are just there.
Of course, you could disregard all this, and just work in your bedroom, writting killer riffs in between porno downloads, and hope, just hope, that your mum tells someone at work you are in a 'wicked band'. Cause yeah, thats going to work a treat! Or, better still, compare notes with other guys in bands that also cant pull a crowd... cause three heads that think exactly the same are better than one, right??
This post summarises probably 90% of the problems people have getting punters IMHO... If you've got a killer lineup at a venue that doesn't have holes in the ceiling you should be able to pull a good crowd - IF YOU DO YOUR PROMO RIGHT.
I've only ever put on one gig personally (ie. not booked as something for Sins) and they were turning people away at the door. I'd bet my left testicle this was mostly due to the fact that I busted my arse wandering around Perth with some sugar glue and some posters plastering Perth with flyers in order to promote the show. I even copped a $200 fine for defacement of public property but the money I made off the gig easily took care of that!
*Public Service Announcement*
Daniel Laidlow in no way condones or endorses defacement of public property. :cunning:
-
^
Yeah just be careful where you put posters. Perth City Council have started to fine venues who pass it on to the promoters, so even if the promoter themselves didnt put the poster up (say it was a band member) they could cop a fine.
Its fucked, considering places like Metro city have HUGE posters and HUGE budgets to cover any fines.
Plan your posterage cafefully metallers :headbang:
-
^
Yeah just be careful where you put posters. Perth City Council have started to fine venues who pass it on to the promoters, so even if the promoter themselves didnt put the poster up (say it was a band member) they could cop a fine.
Its fucked, considering places like Metro city have HUGE posters and HUGE budgets to cover any fines.
Plan your posterage cafefully metallers :headbang:
If you got 700 people at $12 a head into Amplifer bar (thats, err, $8400), who gives a shit if you pay $500 for "advertising expenses".
Biggest fine Ive ever heard of was $200, and the guys were forced to scrape the ads off... AFTER the gig. They sold out Black Bettys, so Im sure they were fine with the... fine...
-
That said though, what about a Castle gig with about 3 "established/renowned" bands, and one up-and-coming act? Couldn't hurt.
That's generally been my plan, but it's easier said than done. Out of every 20 bands asked, often only 4-5 will say yes. I'll be taking a bunch of ideas from this thread and try put them together for my April show, test them out.
Biggest fine Ive ever heard of was $200
That would be feasible at the larger venues, but not for the Castle. The bands might make that from a very successful gig, but as the promoter, I'm happy if I can break even on my $50 advertising budget :/
-
Biggest fine Ive ever heard of was $200
That would be feasible at the larger venues, but not for the Castle. The bands might make that from a very successful gig, but as the promoter, I'm happy if I can break even on my $50 advertising budget :/
Then you have the wrong attitude, ideas, and approach. Think big, or let someone else do it.
-
I fail to see how increasing the stage size is going to bring more punters.
I also fail to see why inviting people to EAT OUT at a bar for $20-30 is somehow making the argument that beer is too expensive, disappear.
Ive been to some of the worlds most famous venues (cat club, roxy, whiskey a go go, gazarri's, etc). They dont have ANYTHING we dont have. Amplifier is bigger than the Whiskey. Nicer setup too.
Hundreds of bands have risen from those venues, to be extremely popular and very wealthy.
Adding two feet of stage at the whiskey, didnt assist any of those bands. They got where they are by excelling at a few things: image, promotion/networking, and sound. Luck doesnt go astray, but damn hard work can more than make up for that.
Now, look at how YOUR band markets itself. Look at the bands around you that have started to get somewhere. Work out what the difference is (and its less about musicianship or catchy tunes).
If you had the best song in the world, how you going to get people on to it, unless you get out there and shove it down people's throats. Dont be scared of promoting your band. Be bigger and better than the next band.
I'll use Voyager as an example, but they just one of a few locals. You KNOW when a Voyager gig is coming. They get themselves an interview, or a promo spot in the street press. They have a good looking poster. They dont have some stupid gig name to dilute the event. They have an image they have all worked out together. They LOOK like a band. They make a show out of every performance. You dont hear about their internal struggles, you only hear about their successes.
Now, I personally don't like Voyager. It's just not my style of music. Im sure most of Voyager hate my prefference of music too! But I can totally respect where they are coming from, and how they are succeeding. They are a tight ship. There are so many more things they could do, but, at the same time, they do sooo many things right. They are a business. You too have to think like that.
A couple years ago I made the offer to around 15 local bands... you wanna hand out flyers, I'LL PAY FOR THEM. One side will be their advert, one side, mine. They were all clients of mine, so we are helping each other. I'll fund it, you guys hand them out. Zip, zilch, none. No-one could be bothered. If bands cant be bothered handing out FREE promo for THEIR band, well, what hope do they have. (for the record, Daz, myself and Musicfinder did a run of flyers to promo WF, and it was quite successful). My most successful flyer promo, was $14,000 worth of sales for $90 in flyers.
Just over a year ago, MDV and I hosted a NYE gig. Two bands handed back $60 worth of posters, and a couple handfuls of flyers, that simply didnt even leave their cars. Why? Why would you not take free promo material, and use it to promo your band? Laziness is the only answer we could find.
Promotional work NEVER stops. I have a waiting list that is longer than two years. I can stop taking orders for guitars for two years, and still not run out of work for two people. That doesnt stop me advertising, or writing articles for the guitar magazines, or updating the website, or doing shows. Never, ever, stop promotional work.
Myspace is a virtual wasteland now, it is too saturated, and everyone's "friend" lists are too big so you get lost. Two years ago, i could send out an update, and get a whole bunch of responses. Nowadays, with 15,000 "fans" i'm lucky to get one response. Facebook is now the new cheap promo tool. For $4 a week, i get somewhere between 10,000-15,000 adverts, and every single week, i get some guy email, via facebook adverts, and he buys something for $50-100. Why doesnt your band use this advertising to market directly to your target audience? Where are you facebook BAND pages? Sharing photos after a gig? Sending out reminder emails? Sending out relevant, interesting updates? I dont see a lot of bands doing this. I see the bands who are getting somewhere do it though...
I dont care what anyone else says. I see 20-30 bands a week come through my workshop. The ONLY guys who are getting somewhere, and the guys who get out there and treat it like a business. You can wank on all day and night about how music is a passion, and you arent in it for the money. Great. Im like that with my business. Id gladly work at some hole like Bunnings, to then pay someone so I could make guitars. But, Ive worked my arse off doing promo work to back up my ability to make a guitar, so now I dont have to worry about where the dollars are coming from... they are just there.
Of course, you could disregard all this, and just work in your bedroom, writting killer riffs in between porno downloads, and hope, just hope, that your mum tells someone at work you are in a 'wicked band'. Cause yeah, thats going to work a treat! Or, better still, compare notes with other guys in bands that also cant pull a crowd... cause three heads that think exactly the same are better than one, right??
Agree on all counts, and thats the only way Ill work these days.
If Im in a band that isnt organised, then scratch that because I wouldnt be in the band.
Opportunities are definitely out there.
-
Castle Metal Nights on Saturdays don't have to be "the gig you go to when nothing else is on". They could be great.
I agree man, except that most people are faggots and flatly refuse to attend the Castle for a myriad of reasons (most of them trivial).
That said though, what about a Castle gig with about 3 "established/renowned" bands, and one up-and-coming act? Couldn't hurt.
theres also the rumor that the castle doesnt have foldback. apparently it has to be from the boxes at the edge o the stage or it doesnt exsist. Even those where it is set up, you should be able to hear it better, unless you're laid down on the stage. maybe if we set up prop feedback on the stage egde to make them feel better! haha.
Perhaps you should do front of stage monitoring, the turned around PA speakers blow goats. Off the top of my head i know at least 3 bands that dont particularly like playing there not because of the small stage or open drum setup but because of the abysmal stage sound sometimes to the point where you can just hear the snare cymbals and your own amp that your standing in front of.
-
Cunts that know their own songs shouldn't need shmicko foldback! :P
-
The sound is fine at the castle, Just some dummy stage foldbacks are needed to do some leaning on while maggot on stage, if I dont have something to prop me up then il have to go get a milk crate or im done for. And i mean I dont wanna not be smashed on stage, that would be..wierd.
I know said castle owner has stated that he doesnt appreciate the monitors getting kicked in hence the above knee level monitors.
So yer why not dummy ones that can withstand the torture they go through from band to band.
With this food idea, best combo is a pint and something to eat for a special price. It promotes people to eat while drinking and also momentarily sobers you up to go spend more money on piss. Again something venue owners might not be able to budge on due to budget restraints, but would be nice of them to let people do a BYO BBQ or something. Say out the front or back of castle? Considering theres not much to eat around there unless you walk to the moon :-\
Ah im too high for this shit right now everything keeps turning into food.
-
I remember the Castle used to do nachos/wedges (I think pizza as well? I forget) years ago when they had their regular 'Metal Nights' ...
-
They will need approval before they can serve any food prepared on the premises. That venue will not get that approval. Doesn't matter if they prepare it, or you BYO and do it out the back, you need that approval.
Nachos, wedges, hot dogs, gourmet fucking lizard and egg nog pie... its irrelevant. Food isnt stopping people SEEING A BAND.
-
Maybe not you but it helps for me. One reason I like Amps is city kebab.
Have a look how many punters are in city kebab, a lot more than once in a night & tell me food doesn't help.
It maybe shouldn't but it does.
-
The sidefill onstage @ the castle is not the problem. The problem is when the mix is bad you cannot hear anything. Fine for some bands but fucking useless for us.
When the mix is right the castle is good when it is wrong it is FUCKED.
-
I've noticed when Elvis is behind the desk sound aint as good as when beard guy w/ hat does it. Beard guy w/ hat ftw.
-
EVERY venue in Perth has it's issues & EVERY point raised on here is valid.
STOP ARGUING OVER THE VALIDITY OF PEOPLE'S POINT OF VIEW. They put up a reason why they don't come & people are just defending themselves over it rather than saying "someone genuinely is not coming for this reason" who cares if you think the reason is pathetic, stupid, unreasonable IT IS THE REASON THEY ARE NOT COMING, so figure out a way to fix it, FUCKING HELL.
The problem is staring you all in the fucking face.
Double & triple booking gigs almost every weekend is just stupid. It is obvious that the scene cannot sustain this. I don't want to hear excuses I want to hear ways of rectifying the problem.
I know it is going to happen but almost EVERY WEEKEND!!
-
Just look @ this Friday for example.
Love or hate Dyscord they will pull numbers + the lineup of other bands + it's a cd launch. Any other metal gig on this night is gonna suffer & I will say pretty badly to.
-
Another problem is the fact that people seem to think that wf is the be all and end all of the perth metal scene. It seems like a lot of bands have become so complacent that they figure a bunch of ads and "bumps" on this website are enough to pull people to a gig. It's certainly a valid avenue for promo but not nearly enough by itself.
Quarter page ads in x-press and drum media, shitloads of posters around town, harassing people at prior gigs with little A5 (or A6 whatever the little ones are) flyers, going on local radio, as well as advertising the shit out of it on here, perthbands, facebook and myspace and you've done a pretty good job at promoting. After all that, if the turnout sucks, there's pretty much fuck all you could have done to make it any better. At that point the only thing you can look at is the quality of the venue.
-
^
Yeah just be careful where you put posters. Perth City Council have started to fine venues who pass it on to the promoters, so even if the promoter themselves didnt put the poster up (say it was a band member) they could cop a fine.
Its fucked, considering places like Metro city have HUGE posters and HUGE budgets to cover any fines.
Plan your posterage cafefully metallers :headbang:
If you got 700 people at $12 a head into Amplifer bar (thats, err, $8400), who gives a shit if you pay $500 for "advertising expenses".
Biggest fine Ive ever heard of was $200, and the guys were forced to scrape the ads off... AFTER the gig. They sold out Black Bettys, so Im sure they were fine with the... fine...
Thats a fair call, it was more of a warning to bands 'starting out' that they might cop it though.
-
Maybe not you but it helps for me. One reason I like Amps is city kebab.
Have a look how many punters are in city kebab, a lot more than once in a night & tell me food doesn't help.
It maybe shouldn't but it does.
I wasn't aware the late night lamb sandwich had actually made it into the classification of "food"...
-
Maybe not City Kebab's weak excuse for a kebab, but some kebab places are not only food - they are meals!
-
Maybe not City Kebab's weak excuse for a kebab, but some kebab places are not only food - they are meals!
I suppose it's the easiest way to get your recommended daily intake of cockroach droppings and salmonella :)
-
by far the best kebabs I have had, have been from Greek restaurants in Sydney...unbelievable...what we got here is shit! well unless someone can tell me where you get the toasted ones, pressed and in a foil jacket
-
Maybe not City Kebab's weak excuse for a kebab, but some kebab places are not only food - they are meals!
I suppose it's the easiest way to get your recommended daily intake of cockroach droppings and salmonella :)
You're dead to me - City Kebabs is my mecca!
-
by far the best kebabs I have had, have been from Greek restaurants in Sydney...unbelievable...what we got here is shit! well unless someone can tell me where you get the toasted ones, pressed and in a foil jacket
Sydney kebabs are awesome! They are cheaper and come with chips and a coke too!
-
..yeah that bit too! Im heading over for one this year some time :drool:
-
..yeah that bit too! Im heading over for one this year some time :drool:
I had one in November and $7.50 got me a kebab, chips and a coke. I payed $14 odd for a kebab and a coke at the Kebab and Co, absolute rip off.
Anyway back onto the topic.... ;)
-
lol kebab co is the worst piece of shit ever, I never been to Sydney but kebabs in Manchester pwn pretty hard. If you want a shitty toasted and pressed one go to the Kebab Kitchen in Warnbro.
-
shitty is not toasted...and I prefer to consider it heat-pressed ;D
-
Double & triple booking gigs almost every weekend is just stupid. It is obvious that the scene cannot sustain this. I don't want to hear excuses I want to hear ways of rectifying the problem.
Its in the hands of the bands.
Bands like Voyager, Chaos Divine etc have good turnouts yet they are not doing anything other bands aren't thinking of, but their implementation is second-to-none, and younger bands need to get a grasp of this. Bigger bands arent getting better opportunities, they are creating them through having a clue about how business and promotion works.
Bands need to do their research - and its starts at the very first level - the gig date.
If you book a date that coincides with a uni exam period, a Subi-eagles-dockers footy match or a major event on at the same time, you're cutting down your chances of a good turnout before you even start.
Gimmicks work too. If there are giveaways at the show, there's a fair bet it will raise more interest in the show.
If bands want to get followers and increase their fan size, they need to stop thinking so much about their music and what they want like, and start working in a way that also appeals to punters.
-
Double & triple booking gigs almost every weekend is just stupid. It is obvious that the scene cannot sustain this. I don't want to hear excuses I want to hear ways of rectifying the problem.
Its in the hands of the bands.
Bands like Voyager, Chaos Divine etc have good turnouts yet they are not doing anything other bands aren't thinking of, but their implementation is second-to-none, and younger bands need to get a grasp of this. Bigger bands arent getting better opportunities, they are creating them through having a clue about how business and promotion works.
Bands need to do their research - and its starts at the very first level - the gig date.
If you book a date that coincides with a uni exam period, a Subi-eagles-dockers footy match or a major event on at the same time, you're cutting down your chances of a good turnout before you even start.
Totally agree with you there Damo.
Booking Amps can be a hassle @ times & if you book now you might just get in by August :laugh:
Leaves plenty of time for double booking, also plenty of time to promote the fuck outta your gig so other bands & promoters know about it & hopefully don't book a gig on the same night.
You just have to do the best you can with what you have.
A lot of bands keep doing the same things & expect a different result. If you keep doing what you have always done you will keep getting what you have always got.
-
I've noticed when Elvis is behind the desk sound aint as good as when beard guy w/ hat does it. Beard guy w/ hat ftw.
ha ha i think 'elvis' is the guy we call 'Leroy' and 'beard guy with hat' is who we call 'kneazles' who has gone on a trip over east for a while and is well missed.
-
LEEEEEEEEROY JENKINS
-
at least i got chicken
-
For the record I love playing at the Castle.
-
2nd, more and more performers AND punters seem to be developing a negative view of the castle. This kind of attitude spreads pretty easily and cripples attendances and in turn the metal scene over time, ultimately. Strange but true: The castle probably has a better sound than Heat seems to ever get. People turning their noses up at the place are no better than the scum that chooses to go to the Paramount every weekend. If metal and cheap beer is your fuel then really the Castle should be the holy land.
I wish i could disagreed with you because you are short and a hobbit. But you are spot on. I think there was talk 6 months ago about digging in and fixing Castle. It needs to happen, just taking a piss there is disheartening.
-
2nd, more and more performers AND punters seem to be developing a negative view of the castle. This kind of attitude spreads pretty easily and cripples attendances and in turn the metal scene over time, ultimately. Strange but true: The castle probably has a better sound than Heat seems to ever get. People turning their noses up at the place are no better than the scum that chooses to go to the Paramount every weekend. If metal and cheap beer is your fuel then really the Castle should be the holy land.
I wish i could disagreed with you because you are short and a hobbit. But you are spot on. I think there was talk 6 months ago about digging in and fixing Castle. It needs to happen, just taking a piss there is disheartening.
First step, install a paper towel dispenser as opposed to some filthy rag to dry your hands on.
-
^ Is that true, seriously?
-
It was last time i was there if my recollection is intact, will report back later tonight.
-
Certainly is!
Always has been.
-
Can the leaking toilet get fixed too? I played a show at the Castle 2 weeks backs and I had toilet water get into my shoe.
-
Yep, the Castle needs to be fixed if we want people to start heading there again, it's something that's been dodged for too long.
-
Has someone asked the management there what the deal is? I'm assuming they don't make enough money for maintenance on non-essential items. Would something like a fundraiser gig help? Raffle? Lamington sale?
-
It's a shame coz the Castle has a buttload of potential, and rumour has it the owner wipes his ass with $100 bills so I don't see why it shouldn't be fixed up even just a bit, increased patronage would surely cover costs in the longrun.
-
I would have preffered money go towards a new toilet than computer games.
-
I don't believe the owner is rolling in money. i do think however that fundraisers and a DIY gang could help. it took this long to get the front bit of the stage fixed up and that was done by the boys. I'm sure they'd love a hand fixing other things round the place. I'll talk to the owner about organizing a fundraiser to fix things like the toilets. who would be up for playing it!? it'd probably be in april at this stage. we're getting quite booked up.
-
Would something like a fundraiser gig help?
Fuck, another one. I swear the reason we never see any fucking money from gigs is because we do so many gigs that are us supporting some random cause or another. Got yet another one in March.
-
Would something like a fundraiser gig help?
Fuck, another one. I swear the reason we never see any fucking money from gigs is because we do so many gigs that are us supporting some random cause or another. Got yet another one in March.
Well, I see that, but I also see that if the shittiness of the venue is keeping people away, and the place doesn't earn enough to get things fixed, a DIY kinda effort is required to bring more people in. I don't play in a band so I can't help from that point of view but I do have access to promotional avenues and I'm happy to do what I can in that department. For the record I've always been too scared to go into the toilets at the Castle so I don't know what they're like *crosses legs* :laugh:
-
When you guys are done with that, i need my next overseas holiday paid for. So, organise another fundraiser. Make sure its a decent crowd though, we have expensive tastes.
Seriously. WTF?? If the owner of the castle cant afford to stay within basic health department LAWS, then the venue should be shut down.
-
Yep, the Castle needs to be fixed if we want people to start heading there again, it's something that's been dodged for too long.
(https://www.wf.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.itraveluk.co.uk%2Fphotos%2Fdata%2F994%2Fmedium%2Fardvreck-castle-ruins.jpg&hash=4b8cfeae118e2343d55c1156e44b35deed959ea4)
:-X Is it too far gone!?
-
Seriously. WTF?? If the owner of the castle cant afford to stay within basic health department LAWS, then the venue should be shut down.
My sentiments exactly.
Its not like its unsightly or impractical. That degree of negligence is ILLEGAL. They could be shut down.
-
Seriously. WTF?? If the owner of the castle cant afford to stay within basic health department LAWS, then the venue should be shut down.
My sentiments exactly.
Its not like its unsightly or impractical. That degree of negligence is ILLEGAL. They could be shut down.
Don't worry then, seeing as supporting metal and other indie music is obviously very lucrative, one of those other swanky clubs in Perth will no doubt step up to fill the gap if the Castle closes.
-
When you guys are done with that, i need my next overseas holiday paid for. So, organise another fundraiser. Make sure its a decent crowd though, we have expensive tastes.
Seriously. WTF?? If the owner of the castle cant afford to stay within basic health department LAWS, then the venue should be shut down.
ha ha ha, yeah pretty much.
Im thinking that joint would be heratige listed too, could be the raisin it hasnt been touched.
-
Don't worry then, seeing as supporting metal and other indie music is obviously very lucrative, one of those other swanky clubs in Perth will no doubt step up to fill the gap if the Castle closes.
As much as I get your sarcasm, I cant offer any sympathy here.
This has nothing to do with music and everything to do with basic sanitation and patron services.
Part of running any business is that sometimes (often) you'll need to be putting money into it. Its not enough to expect a bailout from punters or bands to help repair a toilet or stock a vending machine. If that sort of action is required to keep a business running, then theres either gross negligence in management, or the place should be closed because it cannot appeal to a suficient market.
Venues closing arent always a bad thing, anyway - They make bands work harder for gigs and create better turnouts at other venues. This very issue is being discussed on several other forums right now.
-
You gotta spend money to make money.
-
Bottom line. If you don't fix it they won't come. Eventually people WILL stop coming. If there is a gig somewhere else on the same night they WILL go there.
I understand Wayne's point of view seems to be "I supply the venue it's up to you guys what you do with it from there".
However basic health & safety laws MUST BE adhered to. If someone gets sick injured or hospitalized as a direct result of negligence not only will the venue be closed down, whoever is managing will get a massive fine as will the owner. Also the owner could be sued for fucking millions. It only takes ONE ambulance chasing lawyer to get a wiff of this & he will be lurking in the shadows waiting for the inevitable to happen.
The cover on the septic tank outside is down right DANGEROUS, also the exposed metal fan on the outside wall & exposed wiring of said fan @ arms reach. The toilets etc are a joke.
If a health inspector walked in right now the place will be shut down & the owner will have HUGE fines on his hands.
PRIORITIES much, non essential you say. So you are defending the venue saying that computer games are more essential than the other problems that I & others have been raising.
Having a toilet that does not leak & somewhere sanitry to wash ones hands IS NOT AN OPTION, IT'S A FUCKING REQUIREMENT.
-
Bottom line. If you don't fix it they won't come. Eventually people WILL stop coming. If there is a gig somewhere else on the same night they WILL go there.
I understand Wayne's point of view seems to be "I supply the venue it's up to you guys what you do with it from there".
However basic health & safety laws MUST BE adhered to. If someone gets sick injured or hospitalized as a direct result of negligence not only will the venue be closed down, whoever is managing will get a massive fine as will the owner. Also the owner could be sued for fucking millions. It only takes ONE ambulance chasing lawyer to get a wiff of this & he will be lurking in the shadows waiting for the inevitable to happen.
The cover on the septic tank outside is down right DANGEROUS, also the exposed metal fan on the outside wall & exposed wiring of said fan @ arms reach. The toilets etc are a joke.
If a health inspector walked in right now the place will be shut down & the owner will have HUGE fines on his hands.
PRIORITIES much, non essential you say. So you are defending the venue saying that computer games are more essential than the other problems that I & others have been raising.
Having a toilet that does not leak & somewhere sanitry to wash ones hands IS NOT AN OPTION, IT'S A FUCKING REQUIREMENT.
+1000
-
so thats where i got all those cold sores that time. fucking dirty bassstards.
-
When this is all said and done, the Castle actually do a lot of great things.
~Beers are reasonably priced.
~Bar staff are legends.
~Slick Back Hair Sound Guy is a champ and knows his shit.
~Upgraded PA recently, indicates they give a shit and have probably prioritised.
~Give you a DVD of your performance, who does that these days!!
~Have cool lighting.
~Lets bogans in.
~Is relatively central.
~Has a curtain!
~Provides a sanctuary for homeless pigeons in its rafters.
So for all of you calling for it's closure, go fuck yourself. Sure, it's a little aesthetically dodgy, possibly even deadly, but until there is a recorded death, it is perfectly safe, and gives metalheads a chance to play somewhere that resembles a metal-themed club. i'm sure you've lived in worse squalor at some point in your life, just level up your immune system, through caution into the wind and give the place a fricken chance, or, god forbid, even offer to help him.
-
When this is all said and done, the Castle actually do a lot of great things.
~Beers are reasonably priced.
I don't call $8.50 for a lukewarm pint reasonable considering you can get an ice cold pint for $8 at amps.
-
12 months ago that is.
$9 now mate, get with the times.
-
So for all of you calling for it's closure, go fuck yourself. Sure, it's a little aesthetically dodgy, possibly even deadly, but until there is a recorded death, it is perfectly safe, and gives metalheads a chance to play somewhere that resembles a metal-themed club. i'm sure you've lived in worse squalor at some point in your life, just level up your immune system, through caution into the wind and give the place a fricken chance, or, god forbid, even offer to help him.
Are you serious? We all have to adhere to standards at our businesses and places of work, some which seem pretty trivial, but we do. Dodgy things which involve health issues are just too important.
I can't believe apparently this place has a rag to dry your hands on in the dunny.
-
Forget about the rag... I tripped over the fire extinguisher that was "hidden" in a dark alcove, sitting on the floor, with no sign directing us to its location. No way could it be seen from the floor or stage. Fire starts, mass pandemonium, no extinguisher...
-
I think that's the extinguisher backstage? I also think its not a castle one? i remember someone telling me one of the boys found it. we have fire extinguishers attached to the walls n stuff here n there like behind the bar. We have inspections all the time especially when we get complaints i think? and we're not shut so I'd assume we pass them. I'm only really involved in the promotion side and the occasional shifts behind the bar though so there's not much I can do about most things in the venue. If I had money behind me though, I would probably do my best to improve the place.
-
I just see it as a disaster waiting to happen. They have been VERY lucky so far, luck is a funny thing though, it tends to run out @ some point.
I don't want to see the place shut, I want the serious problems fixed before it is too late.
-
12 months ago that is.
$9 now mate, get with the times.
Not so, I was paying $8 at the UTI show last week or whenever it was. That was TED's though, so I wouldn't expect to pay any more for such a shit beer.
-
For a bottle.
Pints are $9.
-
Whinging cunts, if you don't like it don't go there.
-
Whinging cunts, if you don't like it don't go there.
haha, exactly the point, people AREN'T.
-
I think that's the extinguisher backstage? I also think its not a castle one? i remember someone telling me one of the boys found it. we have fire extinguishers attached to the walls n stuff here n there like behind the bar. We have inspections all the time especially when we get complaints i think? and we're not shut so I'd assume we pass them. I'm only really involved in the promotion side and the occasional shifts behind the bar though so there's not much I can do about most things in the venue. If I had money behind me though, I would probably do my best to improve the place.
As I remember it, workplaces are allowed to get two official warnings, then they are either fined or the place is forced to close until the issues are fixed.
-
Whinging cunts, if you don't like it don't go there.
haha, exactly the point, people AREN'T.
Which is not helped by whinging cunts like you. They've passed the tests and are a legally viable venue so stop defaming them because they don't meet your nancy boy standards. You wouldn't like it if I went around bitching about your business to potential customers so don't be a twat and fuck over other people trying to help W.A. metal.
-
When this is all said and done, the Castle actually do a lot of great things.
~Beers are reasonably priced.
I don't call $8.50 for a lukewarm pint reasonable considering you can get an ice cold pint for $8 at amps.
Doesn't matter if they're $8.50 or $9 - the main reason I avoid the place now is because every time I but a pint its only a tad colder than room temperature! I like the Castle and enjoy playing there but they should at the very least be able to provide cold drinks to patrons.
-
Whinging cunts, if you don't like it don't go there.
haha, exactly the point, people AREN'T.
Which is not helped by whinging cunts like you. They've passed the tests and are a legally viable venue so stop defaming them because they don't meet your nancy boy standards. You wouldn't like it if I went around bitching about your business to potential customers so don't be a twat and fuck over other people trying to help W.A. metal.
Well if im a nancy boy for having hygiene standards and cold beer standards, then nancy me up boyo.
-
Whinging cunts, if you don't like it don't go there.
haha, exactly the point, people AREN'T.
Which is not helped by whinging cunts like you. They've passed the tests and are a legally viable venue so stop defaming them because they don't meet your nancy boy standards. You wouldn't like it if I went around bitching about your business to potential customers so don't be a twat and fuck over other people trying to help W.A. metal.
I see it more as Castle-goers supporting the venue, not the other way around, if "we" didn't go then they'd probably have to close due to lack of business. If the tight arse owner did really support WA metal then he wouldn't be taking advantage of our niche market, continuing to let the place operate in it's run down state.
I think it's more to do with basic hygeine than being a nancy boy too...I'm surprised it's lasted as long as it has, talk about priorities, just fixing the toilets could bring in more people.
I'll post my full two cents on this topic later tonight anyway.
-
Which is not helped by whinging cunts like you. They've passed the tests and are a legally viable venue so stop defaming them because they don't meet your nancy boy standards. You wouldn't like it if I went around bitching about your business to potential customers so don't be a twat and fuck over other people trying to help W.A. metal.
Thats not the issue.
If you cant respect your patrons enough to have a functioning bathroom, why would you expect them to pay money to even enter the place?
-
How many years have we been saying that The Castle has potential?
-
(https://www.wf.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.guardian.co.uk%2Fsys-images%2FFilm%2FPix%2Fpictures%2F2007%2F09%2F27%2Fkenny460.jpg&hash=0f16df3eeb244a77fce12868bcbb9b3f3726ca36)
-
Which is not helped by whinging cunts like you. They've passed the tests and are a legally viable venue so stop defaming them because they don't meet your nancy boy standards. You wouldn't like it if I went around bitching about your business to potential customers so don't be a twat and fuck over other people trying to help W.A. metal.
Hell yeah! Inadvertently ingesting faecal coliforms - not supporting WA metal!
Hell yeah! Concern over fire hazards - not supporting WA metal!
Hell yeah! Ignoring exposed septic tank - not supporting WA metal!
Hell yeah! Thinking money spent on GALAGA is a waste - not supporting WA metal!
Hell yeah! High potential of theft - MEETTTTTTTTALLL!!
You're an idiot of the highest order.
-
Ok... IMO.
Freshen it up a bit. Mix it up.
I for one miss the days of Wardaemonic, Chaos Divine, Pyromesh and Psychonaut hitting the Castle stage - 4 very different bands but all metal and all excellent stage performers!
(Or Black Betty's... what ever happened to that?)
Also, as a general punter, bad loos don't bother me one iota - I mean, half the ones at Amps don't have doors. I know, slight difference. Rag? Wipe your hands on your pants or shake em a bit ;)
I showed up, I bought a few bourbons that the guy seemed to always mix nice and strong (unless he's started using a measurer!), hung in the teeny tiny front room and hallway in between bands, ran into the band area when ever a band started (because I hadn't seen them in aaages) and repeated... threw a few ice cubes around (without being rugby tackled by security), caught up with mates, met and formed life long friendships with people in the course of one night, made good use of those leg muscles to prop over the toilet seat, had a gf hold the door closed for me (wonder why we go to the toilet in pairs/groups??), and then once it was all done and dusted, I continued drinking and talking for a while and then wondered around aimlessly until stumbling across an available taxi. That was a typical night. I came, I saw, I went. I didn't complain about anything and I had a great time. It was all part of the experience.
I've seen too many pre-gig-posts that are just whinging about something or other. Ok sure, maybe the sound wasn't quite up to par, did it really ruin your night? The beer was a bit warm, after a few, did it really matter? Security are a bunch of wankers. Well... that's just funny :P
Haha, I mean come on, if we can use those portaloos at European festivals..... ???
I like the idea of having a "Fix The Castle Dunnies" fundraiser, and I would definitely show for that cause!
Gig posters!!
Pretty glossy big ones that you could steal at the end of the night. I still have some up on my wall. I even have those old giant butcher paper ones from Xmas and NYE gigs. Make an event of your night.
The first local gig I ever attended I found out about because I saw colourful glossy flyers on the floor in the toilets and throughout the bar...
I was so naive to the fact that there was even a local scene, so approaching people everywhere you can is a grand idea!!
I don't even think local metal radio stations advertised that well - I think the only gig I ever heard about on RTR etc was a Black Steel one in Bunbury or somewhere equally as far away!! I almost designed a road trip to go and see them down there, that's how little I was aware of the Perth gigs.
I don't listen to the stations much anymore - do you guys talk the crap out of local gigs after playing a local band's song?
As mentioned before, welcome some new bands that don't have your mates in them... chuck one on with Voyager... everyone will be there because that's just the power that is Voyager.... and they will witness fresh bands in the process.
Terrible idea but go on a random hunt on myspace, and invite a band you like the sound of to come (audition maybe) and play a gig with an established band?
I remember some girl metal band organising a gig, and asking Enforce to support - we all showed for Enforce and saw their set, I don't think many people actually enjoyed their stuff but they got the numbers in the door..? I remember sooomeone saying - "She needs an Ormsby around her neck - one of my guitars would be good too".... ;)
Free entry for girls is definitely advisable ;)
Parking vouchers??
Give out charged up smart riders sometimes??
Uhhhh, I think that's all I got.
More Dunlop Volleys on stage too.
-
I remember some girl metal band organising a gig, and asking Enforce to support - we all showed for Enforce and saw their set, I don't think many people actually enjoyed their stuff but they got the numbers in the door..? I remember sooomeone saying - "She needs an Ormsby around her neck - one of my guitars would be good too".... ;)
haha, you remember the lookout gig well. Majestica. They became the Crepter Children.
-
I remember some girl metal band organising a gig, and asking Enforce to support - we all showed for Enforce and saw their set, I don't think many people actually enjoyed their stuff but they got the numbers in the door..? I remember sooomeone saying - "She needs an Ormsby around her neck - one of my guitars would be good too".... ;)
haha, you remember the lookout gig well. Majestica. They became the Crepter Children.
Ah serious?... hah!
-
Fuck, I remember them. Long time ago, in a reality, far far away from this current one.
There's some great ideas in here, but I think the bottom line is persistence. Keep doing what your doing and the name of a band starts to spread around. Its not just a venue issue. I remember doing gigs with just the bands and the girlfriends looking on way back when the metal scene was virtually non existant for any band other than Allegiance. But you kept playing every week, every chance, coz its what you love doing and people can see that when you play. Advertising is the only way to reach heaps of people that you usually wouldn't. For the Pathogen Demo launch at the Raffles in 97, we made these massive, massive posters, glued them on boards and strung them to light posts on the major roads all around Perth. Heaps of randoms came down for the show. Remember not everyone reads Drum Media or Xpress so the more posters, the better. Time consuming, yes, worth it, yes.
All I got for now.
-
Which is not helped by whinging cunts like you. They've passed the tests and are a legally viable venue so stop defaming them because they don't meet your nancy boy standards. You wouldn't like it if I went around bitching about your business to potential customers so don't be a twat and fuck over other people trying to help W.A. metal.
Hell yeah! Inadvertently ingesting faecal coliforms - not supporting WA metal!
Hell yeah! Concern over fire hazards - not supporting WA metal!
Hell yeah! Ignoring exposed septic tank - not supporting WA metal!
Hell yeah! Thinking money spent on GALAGA is a waste - not supporting WA metal!
Hell yeah! High potential of theft - MEETTTTTTTTALLL!!
You're an idiot of the highest order.
Maybe if that's what I actually said you'd have a point. However all you've done is quote my post and then write irrelevant none sense under it. The point is, if you have a brain, you're not going to die or get injured going to the castle at the fault of the venue. No one has so far and in all likely hood no one will in the near future. The fact that they've passed repeated safety/health inspections show's that in the eye's of the law they're doing nothing wrong. I take Damo's point that it's a respect thing. You feel like you shouldn't have to play in an environment that you're not comfortable in. Fair enough, but the fact is you don't have to go/play there if you don't want. So just stay away from it and keep your mouth shut, or if you have a legitimate complaint go through the proper channel's instead of defaming a local business in public, it's unprofessional and unfair. Plenty of people don't have a problem with the state of the venue and are attending on a regular basis. Plenty more could be too if a lot of senior members of the metal community who for better or worse are looked up to and whose opinions are valued by younger kids first getting into the scene weren't spreading groundless accusations. And to be honest the accusations are groundless. I see people talking about how the venue is legally unsafe or unsanitary but unless you work for the health depart your opinions are amateur and you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Like I said before if you have issues there are better ways to get things done than spreading slander on a public forum, do it the right way because all you're doing here is preventing the business from gaining revenue that could perhaps go towards the improvements you so desire.
P.S. Inge is a fecophiliac.
-
I take Damo's point that it's a respect thing. You feel like you shouldn't have to play in an environment that you're not comfortable in. Fair enough, but the fact is you don't have to go/play there if you don't want. So just stay away from it and keep your mouth shut, or if you have a legitimate complaint go through the proper channel's instead of defaming a local business in public, it's unprofessional and unfair. Plenty of people don't have a problem with the state of the venue and are attending on a regular basis. Plenty more could be too if a lot of senior members of the metal community who for better or worse are looked up to and whose opinions are valued by younger kids first getting into the scene weren't spreading groundless accusations. And to be honest the accusations are groundless. I see people talking about how the venue is legally unsafe or unsanitary but unless you work for the health depart your opinions are amateur and you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
I dont know if this counts, but I am a trained fire warden at work :) so Im pretty familiar with what venues can and cannot get away with.
However, if the toilet towel rumour is true, the Health dept would certainly shut them down.
Maybe the place simply hasnt had an inspection in a while?
-
Went to the castle about once a month for most of 2007 and 2008, the towel was always the same colour and stuck in the same spot. But ive had to crap in worse toilets.
-
For all of those that have problems and concerns with the venue, instead of talking about them here, why don't you try going to the venue, and raising these concerns with the owner?
Although the Castle is still owned by Wayne, its pretty much run by Ben now, so why don't you try talking to Ben, and rasie these concerns with him, and work towards getting these issue resolved. Then once they are, hopefully we will see more of you that whinge about the place down there ;)
-
I dont know if this counts, but I am a trained fire warden at work
Do you get to the wear the hat?
-
Yeah! But only if theres a fire or emergency requiring evacuation :)
-
Yeah! But only if theres a fire or emergency requiring evacuation :)
That's why you do it though, right? For that Village People moment :)
-
half the fires wardens on our floor don't actually know where the fire esacape stairs are... :hmm:
-
half the fires wardens on our floor don't actually know where the fire esacape stairs are... :hmm:
That's cos they spend all their fire warden training time playing with the hats. :offtopic:
-
haha yeah probably
-
Which is not helped by whinging cunts like you. They've passed the tests and are a legally viable venue so stop defaming them because they don't meet your nancy boy standards. You wouldn't like it if I went around bitching about your business to potential customers so don't be a twat and fuck over other people trying to help W.A. metal.
Hell yeah! Inadvertently ingesting faecal coliforms - not supporting WA metal!
Hell yeah! Concern over fire hazards - not supporting WA metal!
Hell yeah! Ignoring exposed septic tank - not supporting WA metal!
Hell yeah! Thinking money spent on GALAGA is a waste - not supporting WA metal!
Hell yeah! High potential of theft - MEETTTTTTTTALLL!!
You're an idiot of the highest order.
Maybe if that's what I actually said you'd have a point. However all you've done is quote my post and then write irrelevant none sense under it. The point is, if you have a brain, you're not going to die or get injured going to the castle at the fault of the venue. No one has so far and in all likely hood no one will in the near future. The fact that they've passed repeated safety/health inspections show's that in the eye's of the law they're doing nothing wrong. I take Damo's point that it's a respect thing. You feel like you shouldn't have to play in an environment that you're not comfortable in. Fair enough, but the fact is you don't have to go/play there if you don't want. So just stay away from it and keep your mouth shut, or if you have a legitimate complaint go through the proper channel's instead of defaming a local business in public, it's unprofessional and unfair. Plenty of people don't have a problem with the state of the venue and are attending on a regular basis. Plenty more could be too if a lot of senior members of the metal community who for better or worse are looked up to and whose opinions are valued by younger kids first getting into the scene weren't spreading groundless accusations. And to be honest the accusations are groundless. I see people talking about how the venue is legally unsafe or unsanitary but unless you work for the health depart your opinions are amateur and you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Like I said before if you have issues there are better ways to get things done than spreading slander on a public forum, do it the right way because all you're doing here is preventing the business from gaining revenue that could perhaps go towards the improvements you so desire.
P.S. Inge is a fecophiliac.
Actually you are WRONG!! I have been trained & as the safety rep @ my workplace I can tell you this place is not up to legal standard.
I don't want to see the place closed, if I did then I would take photo's & send them into the health dept & worksafe. I just want the owner to fix what he is legally obliged to fix.
I have raised concerns @ the venue in the past & they were just brushed off.
Someone is turning a blind eye, but when there is a serious injury the shit will hit the fan.
As I said before, calling people pathetic childish names for their reasons for not attending gigs aint gonna get em there. The fact of the matter is, that this is the reason why they are not attending. You can think it's a shitty reason all you like & insult people all you like but the bottom line is, until the problem that prevents them from attending is resolved those people just won't attend. Or will rarely attend.
-
I'm not insulting people for not attending, I couldn't give a fuck whether they do or not. I'm saying don't bad mouth it on a public forum.
-
:drunk: lets have one!
-
I'm not insulting people for not attending, I couldn't give a fuck whether they do or not. I'm saying don't bad mouth it on a public forum.
People aren't bad mouthing, they're "expressing their concerns".
You've been using the word "defaming" a lot but I think you find that, while each post varies in degrees of eloquence, the things people are saying are true.
There are some safety hazards; there is a skanky dunny.... so that's not technically defamation is it?
Some aren't happy with the price of beer but are stating a factual price. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I can vouch for having been served more than one not-quite-cold-enough pint at the C*stle.
I'd still go there for sure if there's a band worth watching. I'm not fussed about the toilet. The Hydey had some pretty messy toilets at times. But they weren't flooded, I guess.
-
I'm not insulting people for not attending, I couldn't give a fuck whether they do or not. I'm saying don't bad mouth it on a public forum.
People aren't bad mouthing, they're "expressing their concerns".
You've been using the word "defaming" a lot but I think you find that, while each post varies in degrees of eloquence, the things people are saying are true.
There are some safety hazards; there is a skanky dunny.... so that's not technically defamation is it?
Some aren't happy with the price of beer but are stating a factual price. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I can vouch for having been served more than one not-quite-cold-enough pint at the C*stle.
I'd still go there for sure if there's a band worth watching. I'm not fussed about the toilet. The Hydey had some pretty messy toilets at times. But they weren't flooded, I guess.
The castle serves literally the cheapest beer I've ever seen. If you go to any other venue you will pay shit loads more so that's not even an issue. Not only that but the beer is cold as fuck. You guys all just make shit up in your head because you get so wasted when you go there.
Anyway back to the issue of the toilets. That towel is for wiping your hands with AFTER you have sanitized them. Not wiping your fucking ass. If it's not used properly that's hardly the venues fault and also if the toilet is flooded just use the chicks dunny, that's what I do, not only is it sexier in there but it's generally cleaner and in better repair since chicks don't kick the toilet to shit and then blame the venue.
-
I was taking issue at you calling people out for expressing concerns, saying they should shut the fuck up and stop being pussies because by doing so they are somehow harming the music scene.
Either way, if you guys have the fire issue sorted, I can do couple of assays on the restroom, no problem. If it's bad, then take steps towards sanitation. If it's relatively clear then everyone can shut up about it. Culture on blood agar, coliform colony count and environmental swabs, calicivirus, rotavirus, adenovirus PCR (which are faecal-oral gastrointestinal viruses).
The argument that you wipe your hands after sanitising them might hold some weight if there was ever any pump soap in there but we'll see just how dirty you lot are.
For the record, I'm not a faecophiliac or coprophile. But I sure know a lot about shit.
-
I'd also like to chime in that the attitude I'm sensing from you, christian_deanie, is that as long as nobody has been hurt or "killed" by some of the hazards more than one of us has spotted, then it's alright and to harden up. As the third fire and safety rep (and a radiation safety officer, if we're counting) to be in this thread, that is a truly horrible attitude to have. I hope you have no sway at all into how a business operates, nor would I want you to in my workplace.
Also, theres a bar on Pier st just opposite a classy hotel that serves beer for about $8 a pint the last time I went. Throw in a few happy hour sun-downers and it's an alright place :)
-
I was the fire rep in my office until it burnt down.
-
Durty Nelly's - $8 a pint, cheaper during happy hour/s and cheaper on certain beers (usually Guinness, unsurprisingly).
-
There's one hand towel in the toilets??
You guys know how stanky your mums' hand towel gets in the kitchen after a few days of general family use, imagine how fucking rank that towel would get after 50 odd bogans use it at a pub?? Even if only half of the toilet goers use it (or wash their hands for that matter), times that by every toilet visit and you've got a bacterial wonderland. Rub that on your agar!
There's a reason nearly ALL public toilets use paper towels or hand driers.
Admittedly The Castle isnt the only venue notorious for shithouse shitters, Amps dunnies are usually already trashed before the first half of a gig, but of the 7 or so to choose from, there's usually at least a few that are in good working order. The Castle has 2(?) to keep in check....
As a venue, sure it has potential, but surely the owners/managers/staff notice it's condition and would WANT to improve it? If this many people comment about the same thing, does that mean whoever runs the place walks around with their eyes closed?
Hand towel dispenser - $47.50ea x2
Hand towels - $90.90 ctn 24
Jumbo toilet roll dispenser - $39.90 x2
Jumbo toilet rolls - $81.90 ctn 6
Less than $350. Questions?
-
Culture on blood agar, coliform colony count and environmental swabs, calicivirus, rotavirus, adenovirus PCR (which are faecal-oral gastrointestinal viruses).
I bar up when you talk like that.
-
Mighty quinn, 6.50 for a pint of shit, 7 for guinness, 8 or something for becks etc
-
So..... in order to get more people to local gigs to see your band the solution is to fix the toilet at The Castle? :laugh:
Fuck. Behemoth must have fixed a LOT of broken toilets to get that kind of exposure.
-
That towel is for wiping your hands with AFTER you have sanitized them.
Legally, you shouldnt even have to be TOUCHING a towel that someone else has had their hands on, hence why almost all public bathrooms have dispensed paper towels or hot air dryers.
-
Someone touches the paper towels when they put them in the dispenser.
-
You're an idiot, shut the fuck up. Also, Paddy McGuire's $6.50 beer of the month.
-
Not to mention the button on the electric drier. Maybe we should remove toilet door handles due to them being a health hazard?
-
You're an idiot, shut the fuck up.
We might need to get this macro'd into one-button press. I get the idea it's going to be called on frequently for this discussion alone.
-
You're an idiot, shut the fuck up.
-
"
-
Ive said it before and ill say it again...
Ive been to shithole 'clubs' like you wouldnt believe and seen some great bands like rotten sound, immoltation, at the gates, napalm death, hateplow and ratos de porao to name a few make a great show regardless of venue.
The castle seems to cop a lot of flak every few months. this argument will no doubt die in the ass and be resurrected once again in another shape.
As for the metal scene its going great in my opinion. the fact that venues support metal on a regular basis and dont think twice about putting one on is GREAT! want a power metal band? goddamn it form one!! too much death metal? tough shit! not enough maxi p for ya? well where are they coz id like to see 'em too! for a small city we have a HEALTHY scene and there are plenty of bands. sure the crowds arent always there but what do you expect to play to 300ppl every now and then? get over it. itd be nice but it aint gonna happen unless your a band who shows that your worth spending money on. until then write write write practice practice practice promote promote promote gig gig gig......but everyone already knows this haha
metal :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
-
:clap:
-
I'm not insulting people for not attending, I couldn't give a fuck whether they do or not. I'm saying don't bad mouth it on a public forum.
People aren't bad mouthing, they're "expressing their concerns".
You've been using the word "defaming" a lot but I think you find that, while each post varies in degrees of eloquence, the things people are saying are true.
There are some safety hazards; there is a skanky dunny.... so that's not technically defamation is it?
Some aren't happy with the price of beer but are stating a factual price. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I can vouch for having been served more than one not-quite-cold-enough pint at the C*stle.
I'd still go there for sure if there's a band worth watching. I'm not fussed about the toilet. The Hydey had some pretty messy toilets at times. But they weren't flooded, I guess.
The castle serves literally the cheapest beer I've ever seen. If you go to any other venue you will pay shit loads more so that's not even an issue. Not only that but the beer is cold as fuck. You guys all just make shit up in your head because you get so wasted when you go there.
Wrong. The last 3 times I've been there I've been sober PURELY because the pints I've bought have been lukewarm. $9 is hardly cheap either, even Amps is cheaper.
Get back in your box.
-
it aint gonna happen unless your a band who shows that your worth spending money on.
...And there you have it
-
...too much death metal? tough shit! metal :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
:rofl: :headbang:
-
it aint gonna happen unless your a band who shows that your worth spending money on.
...And there you have it
I've already pointed this out. Several times.
-
since value is subjective, fucking obviously...then you will always be in this situation... life!
-
I'm not insulting people for not attending, I couldn't give a fuck whether they do or not. I'm saying don't bad mouth it on a public forum.
People aren't bad mouthing, they're "expressing their concerns".
You've been using the word "defaming" a lot but I think you find that, while each post varies in degrees of eloquence, the things people are saying are true.
There are some safety hazards; there is a skanky dunny.... so that's not technically defamation is it?
Some aren't happy with the price of beer but are stating a factual price. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I can vouch for having been served more than one not-quite-cold-enough pint at the C*stle.
I'd still go there for sure if there's a band worth watching. I'm not fussed about the toilet. The Hydey had some pretty messy toilets at times. But they weren't flooded, I guess.
The castle serves literally the cheapest beer I've ever seen. If you go to any other venue you will pay shit loads more so that's not even an issue. Not only that but the beer is cold as fuck. You guys all just make shit up in your head because you get so wasted when you go there.
Wrong. The last 3 times I've been there I've been sober PURELY because the pints I've bought have been lukewarm. $9 is hardly cheap either, even Amps is cheaper.
Get back in your box.
Fuck you, it is cheaper there and it is colder. Like I said maybe if you didn't drink so much of it you would be able to make a clear headed observation.
-
I'm not insulting people for not attending, I couldn't give a fuck whether they do or not. I'm saying don't bad mouth it on a public forum.
People aren't bad mouthing, they're "expressing their concerns".
You've been using the word "defaming" a lot but I think you find that, while each post varies in degrees of eloquence, the things people are saying are true.
There are some safety hazards; there is a skanky dunny.... so that's not technically defamation is it?
Some aren't happy with the price of beer but are stating a factual price. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I can vouch for having been served more than one not-quite-cold-enough pint at the C*stle.
I'd still go there for sure if there's a band worth watching. I'm not fussed about the toilet. The Hydey had some pretty messy toilets at times. But they weren't flooded, I guess.
The castle serves literally the cheapest beer I've ever seen. If you go to any other venue you will pay shit loads more so that's not even an issue. Not only that but the beer is cold as fuck. You guys all just make shit up in your head because you get so wasted when you go there.
Wrong. The last 3 times I've been there I've been sober PURELY because the pints I've bought have been lukewarm. $9 is hardly cheap either, even Amps is cheaper.
Get back in your box.
Fuck you, it is cheaper there and it is colder. Like I said maybe if you didn't drink so much of it you would be able to make a clear headed observation.
Did you even read what he wrote? *ahem* SOBER DUE TO LUKEWARM PINTS *ahem*
Perhaps it is you who cant perceive temperature correctly.
-
No! It's all you drunk cunts.
-
I'm not insulting people for not attending, I couldn't give a fuck whether they do or not. I'm saying don't bad mouth it on a public forum.
People aren't bad mouthing, they're "expressing their concerns".
You've been using the word "defaming" a lot but I think you find that, while each post varies in degrees of eloquence, the things people are saying are true.
There are some safety hazards; there is a skanky dunny.... so that's not technically defamation is it?
Some aren't happy with the price of beer but are stating a factual price. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I can vouch for having been served more than one not-quite-cold-enough pint at the C*stle.
I'd still go there for sure if there's a band worth watching. I'm not fussed about the toilet. The Hydey had some pretty messy toilets at times. But they weren't flooded, I guess.
The castle serves literally the cheapest beer I've ever seen. If you go to any other venue you will pay shit loads more so that's not even an issue. Not only that but the beer is cold as fuck. You guys all just make shit up in your head because you get so wasted when you go there.
Wrong. The last 3 times I've been there I've been sober PURELY because the pints I've bought have been lukewarm. $9 is hardly cheap either, even Amps is cheaper.
Get back in your box.
Fuck you, it is cheaper there and it is colder. Like I said maybe if you didn't drink so much of it you would be able to make a clear headed observation.
You're a fucking retard dude. I rarely get drunk at gigs these days cos I'm always working, you'd realise this if you knew me and/or had a clue.
-
Hook, line, and sinker.
-
Hook, line, and sinker.
Meh, i've made my point - I don't care if he is trolling. Maybe he should find something more productive to do with his time.
-
No! It's all you drunk cunts.
You're an idiot, shut the fuck up.
-
like getting a home-brew happening...case in point, home-brew hoegaarden is almsot better than the real shit! :drunk:
-
Fuck you, it is cheaper there and it is colder. Like I said maybe if you didn't drink so much of it you would be able to make a clear headed observation.
Isn't beer supposed to make things better when you're drunk!? Ugly girls start to look pretty, gross kebabs taste edible.... so how come what you call an ice-cold cheap beer seems like expensive, tepid piss to 'drunk cunts'? :P
-
Fuck you, it is cheaper there and it is colder. Like I said maybe if you didn't drink so much of it you would be able to make a clear headed observation.
Isn't beer supposed to make things better when you're drunk!? Ugly girls start to look pretty, gross kebabs taste edible.... so how come what you call an ice-cold cheap beer seems like expensive, tepid piss to 'drunk cunts'? :P
And circle gets the square!
-
Because I piss in your pints since the toilets are too fucked up to use. You guys just don't notice since you're so drunk.
-
I piss in your mouth because the toilets are too fucked up to use.
-
wouldnt be noticed anyway ;D
-
Not to mention the button on the electric drier. Maybe we should remove toilet door handles due to them being a health hazard?
I use my elbow on the manual dryers. However these days the dryers don't have a button fool, they operate with a movement sensor.
-
problem with that is you activate it unintentionally and you shit pants with fright...lucky your are in the toilet though :laugh:
-
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
i thought this thread was here for some fucking good reasons, but apparently not - after mentioning the double / triple booking gigs - fucktards STILL organised a 3rd bloody motherfucking show on the same day (March 6th)
and i wouldve attended that fucking show if i wasnt already playing a fucking show.
see the dilemma?!?!
WHY ARE PEOPLE BLIND!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!? im fucking sick of this!!!!!!
-
Isnt that the night of AC/DC?
Who in their right mind would book a show that night anywhere in Australia?
-
I think it really is the principle of it more so than the date, it's just shit like this always happens that sets these discussions off yet no one lifts a finger to do anything about it. Do note, that it's a little difficult because not everyone in the Perth metal or music scene goes to WF to post or to promote. I imagine it would've been a lot harder before the internet existed. I think Val raised a very very good point, we have plenty of venues here in Perth that most bands in other countries who are starting out would kill to play at. The only problem is getting a crowd, everyone here has raised very valid points mainly regarding promotion and that remains the most important. Another one is double-booking, or triple booking or more so.
Which also brings me to another point that someone brought up, booking gigs that have line ups consisting of different bands from the different spectrums of metal. It's a fucking great idea. Asking an organizer to play a gig, and getting rejected because apparently your band's not "brutal" enough or not "black" metal or "proggy" enough, is fucking retarded. It's metal for fuck sake. You want a big crowd?, you get bands from different metal genres. It's going to be harder for bands who are trying to break the mold of death, black, thrash, prog or power metal just because they don't confine themselves to a single sound.
Either way, I found out about the 6th March RTR gig on the radio a couple of weeks ago while listening to Critical Mass, I facepalmed pretty hard while driving, I almost crashed. Nah, not really. I did facepalm though.
-
Dude I'd say the people who had these shows booked had them book for awhile but didn't post anything until thing were all sorted, after this thread was started. After the next month or so when promotors have to book more venues I'd like to see things start working out and multiple booking started to be ironed out. Promotors have to work together.
I suggest an admin only section on wf for anyone who is a promotor so they can do an unofficial gig post as soon as they have a date booked, if one is already posted then don't book one on that day. That was the masses cant see it until its fully legit and ready to be promoted.
Also international gigs and days of interest would be good to throw in.
A promotors only section that is organised with daz to get another password, maybe a certain criteria is need to be classed as a promotor and not a whistleblower for international gigs etc, etc.
-
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
i thought this thread was here for some fucking good reasons, but apparently not - after mentioning the double / triple booking gigs - fucktards STILL organised a 3rd bloody motherfucking show on the same day (March 6th)
and i wouldve attended that fucking show if i wasnt already playing a fucking show.
see the dilemma?!?!
WHY ARE PEOPLE BLIND!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!? im fucking sick of this!!!!!!
Oh no!! A Suffer gig that clashes with a metal gig!
STOP THE PRESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Now you also have to choose between Grim Fandango and a metal gig. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
They're all so similar I can't decide!!$%@#%$$@
There should only be one gig on in Perth for each night of the week, regardless of genre!!!!!
-
Dude I'd say the people who had these shows booked had them book for awhile but didn't post anything until thing were all sorted, after this thread was started. After the next month or so when promotors have to book more venues I'd like to see things start working out and multiple booking started to be ironed out. Promotors have to work together.
I suggest an admin only section on wf for anyone who is a promotor so they can do an unofficial gig post as soon as they have a date booked, if one is already posted then don't book one on that day. That was the masses cant see it until its fully legit and ready to be promoted.
Also international gigs and days of interest would be good to throw in.
A promotors only section that is organised with daz to get another password, maybe a certain criteria is need to be classed as a promotor and not a whistleblower for international gigs etc, etc.
Doesn't really solve the issue of every saturday of the year being booked out by one person though, does it.
"New Post:
I book every saturday of the year. You have been totally warned.
lolthanks."
-
Dude I'd say the people who had these shows booked had them book for awhile but didn't post anything until thing were all sorted, after this thread was started. After the next month or so when promotors have to book more venues I'd like to see things start working out and multiple booking started to be ironed out. Promotors have to work together.
I suggest an admin only section on wf for anyone who is a promotor so they can do an unofficial gig post as soon as they have a date booked, if one is already posted then don't book one on that day. That was the masses cant see it until its fully legit and ready to be promoted.
Also international gigs and days of interest would be good to throw in.
A promotors only section that is organised with daz to get another password, maybe a certain criteria is need to be classed as a promotor and not a whistleblower for international gigs etc, etc.
Doesn't really solve the issue of every saturday of the year being booked out by one person though, does it.
"New Post:
I book every saturday of the year. You have been totally warned.
lolthanks."
Constructive criticism will be ignored!!
You should be grateful there is a gig at all!
-
Doesn't really solve the issue of every Saturday of the year being booked out by one person though, does it.
"New Post:
I book every Saturday of the year. You have been totally warned.
lolthanks."
What's the difference between the one guy who books every Saturday and a whole heap of people that do the same thing?
As long as there is only 1 gig on that night then mission accomplished.
Said promotor better have something good lined up for every Saturday of the year, and hopefully will change venue and bands from time to time.
Also its highly unlikely that someone will get every Saturday of the year.
Do you think amps will do it? Or Charles Hotel?
A raised point in these discussions has been that a lot of venues are closing doors to regular metal events.
The castle is practically the most consistent with gigs, otherwise other venues are first in best dressed and gigs are a few weeks between before the next metal gig is held there.
If said promotor does a shit job with every Saturday I'm sure the clubs will eventually cancel his booking and that promotor's post shotgunning all Saturdays is to be taken down.
The point is for more communication between people who want to put on gigs, i bet a hundred bucks the regular promotors don't call each other up and say hey man don't book anything for the 14th. No one would give a fuck to do that. But a simple post to insure your gig is a FUCK TON more successful would be so simple and easy and less confrontational.
Why you so negative nihilist, you need to smoke some PCP and change your whole perspective on shit.
-
He's not speculating
http://www.wf.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=5441.msg105531;topicseen#msg105531
-
There may be metal every Saturday at the castle but I know that one promotor has 1 date the middle of the month and that's it, other Saturdays are other people booking gigs.
In the end if the promotor wants good turn outs, it would make sense not to book every Saturday, as it would get pretty stale, which is what has happened now.
Make things into events like some of you have said.
Variety has come up a lot, sound like that is a key to getting more people.
You can either play it safe and have the castle gigs every Saturday for the same 30 people, or take a bit of a gamble and do one once a month at other venues with other line ups and as long as its the only gig that night and something a bit flashier than a normal metal gig then its should go off.
For example, one of the first metal party bus gigs with dual stages at railway..twas far away for some, but was a pretty awesome night.
Providing there is nothing else booked that night, this type of event would be better than the norm.
And also the dual stage Australia Day gig done by soundworks at the hydey awhile back.
I think its a case of too little time for too many bands. Most gigs go for 4 hours and have 3-5 bands playing. If gigs were to be reduced to one per night fri/sat than a lot of bands are missing out. But in turn it will make bands work harder to be considered for gigs.
Only catch to that is promotors who put on band that are their friends. We may end up seeing the same bands again and again. But this is up to promotor who wants either his/her gigs to stay consistently successful or for them to go stale and see numbers dwindle.
Variety..an event..and events spread out a little more. Points that have bee brought up, but not really had anything suggested for.
Which is why first step is to set up some sort of easy communication thingy for promotors or people who are putting on a gig.
Ive seen some complaining about this upcoming weekend still being triple booked ect. Those gigs were all started to be organised before this thread came up. If things are to happen to make gigs better, its not gonna happen instantly. Give it a month or two.
-
^ and that is why you need to listen to this guy
-
^ and that is why you need to listen to this guy
Yeah, he's makes a lot of sense.
I kinda like the idea of an invite only section here for promoters, just to run dates past each other. More often than not the clashes occur without the promoters knowing until both gigs are officially announced. A simple "I've got this date in mind for this style of band" would go a long way. Even if there is another gig on that night, it would allow you to create two different events, rather than two similar nights in direct competition.
-
It's not negativity, it's fact. She has clearly said she has instructions to book a gig e-v-e-r-y saturday, thus e-v-e-r-y saturday is booked. If you want to put a gig on on a saturday, you will be double booking, which is what you're all fucking complaining about.
-
not booking the gigs isnt going to help the scene. I'm going to keep doing my job and booking metal on Saturdays. sorry.
Booking out 52 saturdays a year and expecting every other promoter to work around you sure is going to make you popular.
You'd have to talk to the owner about changing the way the castle has worked since before I even went there. as for the punk/rock gigs on saturdays we already do plenty of those every other night, we'd just be saturating another genre. Imo, we're one of the smaller venues struggling to keep our head above the water while venues like amps and rocket room are doing fine, maybe they should ease up a little.
Doesn't get much clearer than that. The Castle officially has every Saturday night ever, and the other venues/promoters should just "ease up a little".
-
Better communication is not going to stop promoters from double booking. If another place is booked to have metal that weekend, a rival promoter is not going to cancel his/her gig if he thinks he has a stronger lineup.
As most of us would know when we book gigs, we are offered a date or (at most) a small selection of dates which need to be locked in straight away. They could be upto 4 months out from the actual event, but once they are locked in, its suicide to try and cancel/change it.
There have always been double bookings in the metal scene from as far back as I can remember and with less venues its not going to stop happening. Its a dog eat dog world. We dont plan to destroy someone elses gig by putting on one of our own, but we cant just sit back waiting for a free night to book, as there wont be one.
Also, having only 30 people turn up to a regular Castle gig surely cant be that big a deal for any other event wanting to put on a show that night. If your band needs to have those 30 people at your show, you probably shouldnt be gigging.
-
Indeed castle is booked every saturday, but it doesnt need to be metal every saturday..with the hydey closed down id say its a good oprtunity to get other types of music aswell. Just leave it open for other genre promoters to book.
Then again if castle is metal every saturday, so be it. Dont book any other gigs that day and you will either see those gigs getting bigger and better, or tsaying the same because of peoples problems with the castle, which could be solved with either renvations. OR stop having the metal gigs every saturday and letting it get stale.
By having no other gigs there it will either force the bands who dont want to play there to maybe playing there..or you will have all those bands only playing friday night, and other bands saturday.
I also stated that promotors dont give a fuck and will double book gigs, but if thats the case then they loose out because with a little
co-opporation and common sense they could of turned the 2 or 3 gigs with 30 people each, into one gig that has 90+ people at a gig and have a better night.
Profit wise and vibe wise.
s most of us would know when we book gigs, we are offered a date or (at most) a small selection of dates which need to be locked in straight away. They could be upto 4 months out from the actual event, but once they are locked in, its suicide to try and cancel/change it.
When those dates are locked in even if it is months ahead then that person can chuck them into the promoters section and others can work around it.
The whole point is to get everyone at the one gig insted of seperating. It benifits the promoter so much more.
In the end you can either be a selfish cunt and have fuck all people at a gig and a shit night
Or
Work together, be more aware of whats going on, pump more effort into it and have a killer night.
Its just a matter of people deciding if they want to help the scene or not.
We can keep on pumping out gigs that divide the scene and add to the decline, or unite it and make things better.
Up to them really.
Also, having only 30 people turn up to a regular Castle gig surely cant be that big a deal for any other event wanting to put on a show that night. If your band needs to have those 30 people at your show, you probably shouldnt be gigging
Those 30 people would still add up to $300 at another gig, and also pack the place out a bit more.
Doesnt matter who those 30 people are the whole idea is get as many people if not everyone possible in the one place.
Does anyone else have any ideas how to stop double and triple bookings? Or improving the scene in general?
Soundwave now...fuck yes!
-
Doesnt matter who those 30 people are the whole idea is get as many people if not everyone possible in the one place.
And what about those people who dont JUST listen to metal, like the hard rock guys, Karnivool-metal followers, etc? They would probably come to a metal gig if there werent double booked rock gigs. Double booking is not restricted to one genre, and there IS cross-pollination occurring.
The point is, maybe these types of shows are far too specific to one style to work, especially long-term. Open them up a bit more so that there would be interested from more than 30 people and its a good start.
Sure, die hard metal guys may hate the fact that people from a scene they dont like may be 'infiltrating' 'their' shows, but when there are hundreds of people, crowds tend to have a much better vibe anyway. The metal guys will still cheer for and associate with the bands they came to see, but they'll be doing it in a much more active room, with heaps more people and a much better atmosphere.
-
Unfortunately it just doesn't work Damo. Guy Bell & others have tried the cross pollination thing numerous times.
Most of the metal fans are too up their own, as soon as there is a non metal band on the bill they do a no show.
If you mix even the metal styles up too much the numbers drop dramatically, esp now there are other gigs to go to on the same night.
Don't mix it enough & you end up with a small elitist group of one style.
There is a fine balancing act to getting the mix right as a large contingent of the Perth metal scene are just picky fuckers. A lot of em won't show unless they love @ least 3 out of 4 bands on the night.
This is also a reason for multiple bookings. Great for elitists fucked for the rest of us.
-
Most of the metal fans are too up their own, as soon as there is a non metal band on the bill they do a no show.
Thats ok, if their no-show only accounts for 30 people, if the non-metal crew passing through tops 200...
It DOES work, you just need to advertise the focus as being on the night, the festivities and not necessarily the bands... Organising giveaways, promoting openly etc - Ive seen and even DONE this numerous times in the past with great success.
The problem I see is that people think too much about the bands they want to play alongside, rather than what will draw the people.
In my view, it wasnt until bands like Voyager and co started playing away from the die-hard metal scene that they started to get the recognition from the broader community. Now I hear of people who go to a Voyager show just because 'they know itll be a good gig' - and they are usually referring to punter numbers, not that bands playing.
Case in point: we opened the doors a few weeks ago with Evolution Machine and advertised it to everyone. We had some great support bands in Lacrymae and Voyager, but we intentionally kept people guessing as to what we actually sounded like. At the end of the day, most people turned out to see some old favourites, some new music and familiar faces. Hell, they may have even hated what we played, but there was everyone from pop people to metal people in attendance and the vibe was unreal.
1 hour after the show, people were still hanging in the carpark catching up with friends they hadnt spoken to in ages...
I cant put my finger on exactly why it worked so well, but thats the game - If you know what motivates punters to come down you focus on that.
-
That will work fine for bands like Voyager or even Dyscord etc as they have a cross pollinated sound. The majority of local metal bands do not however.
I personally prefer a wider style of bands on the bill like yourself Damo, too many others seem not to though, which is a shame.
My favorite gigs are always the ones with a wide variety of bands that put effort into their stage shows & ea band does their best to put on a better show than the rest. Lazy bands always bore me no matter how technically proficient they are.
That is why I am a fan of bands playing less often but putting on a bigger better performance when they do.
-
That will work fine for bands like Voyager or even Dyscord etc as they have a cross pollinated sound. The majority of local metal bands do not however.
...
That is why I am a fan of bands playing less often but putting on a bigger better performance when they do.
I personally think that's a big part of the "decline" issue right there... what we may have here is a bunch of bands all going for the same, tried-and-true sound, all catering to only one type of crowd. Double/triple booking aside, you have at least one of these gigs per weekend. What makes one of the gigs on this weekend such a big deal, if I can pretty much catch the same gig next weekend, or the weekend after, etc?
If there was more diversity (as has been said before) in both the gig lineups and the bands in the scene, and each gig was more "occasional" special event, I think people would put a lot more effort into showing up. Sure, some (perhaps even many) like to see/hear the same stuff all the time, and want every gig lineup to have our number-one favourite style of music playing at all times without exception, but on the other hand, some people have more open music tastes, and an attention span long enough to find three to four hours of the same activity, all the time, not so entertaining.
-
yeah good points...but the one thing that drives all this is what people want to listen to. Australian radio and music culture vs Germany for example...
-
German popular music is invariably awful.
-
News: The Castle will be closed this april while a few renovations are made. hopefully the work will be done by the end of april but if theres too much to do it may be shut for may too. will keep you all updated.
-
Well it would seem that all the whinging has actually resulted in something, unless of course this was going to happen anyway.
-
Relaunch party in June! :)
-
Sanitation Proclamation!
-
its so easy to have a decent hygenic toilet enviroment, so whats the fucking problem? why even debate over it. Just make it fucking clean and install a friggin paper towel rack man. sheeez.
-
those auto air fresheners and shitloads of bleach before the night starts
-
go on then. get scrubbing.
oooh you mean you wanna be the one stood there sayin they missed a spot, not the one doing the scrubbing.
-
go on then. get scrubbing.
oooh you mean you wanna be the one stood there sayin they missed a spot, not the one doing the scrubbing.
That's what leadership is all about!
-
go on then. get scrubbing.
oooh you mean you wanna be the one stood there sayin they missed a spot, not the one doing the scrubbing.
I aint scrubbing shit ;)
-
:rofl:
-
Awesome!
Look forward to seeing the improvements.
-
German popular music is invariably awful.
yeah but you get nightwish etc on the radio....not even close here, its all kings of leon and that ear splitting shit muse...fuck, u know what i mean
-
That is why I am a fan of bands playing less often but putting on a bigger better performance when they do.
Exactly what I was saying at rehearsal last night. We Neverwhores work so hard and create these huge shows, but only once every couple of years for CD launches. Gigs after that are just gigs. We need to stop doing gigs of no real value to ourselves and the scene, and do 4 big gigs a year instead of these countless small bitchgigs. Do it right and do it large EVERYTIME or don't bother.
See? This topic is benefitting the local scene already. There will be less of US. :)
-
:rofl:
GOOD TO SEE YOU TAKE ONE FOR THE TEAM MATE. ;D
-
Unless the gigs are something important than we will be playin about every 3 months also.
-
News: The Castle will be closed this april while a few renovations are made. hopefully the work will be done by the end of april but if theres too much to do it may be shut for may too. will keep you all updated.
SWEEEEEEEET. repaint plz ;D
...and great points made in the past coupla pages.
-
go on then. get scrubbing.
oooh you mean you wanna be the one stood there sayin they missed a spot, not the one doing the scrubbing.
fuck that...give us 50/hr, a high pressure hose and 3 litres of bleach, it'll be done in no time...u are beaten before you have tried (are u a pom?) ;D
-
go on then. get scrubbing.
oooh you mean you wanna be the one stood there sayin they missed a spot, not the one doing the scrubbing.
fuck that...give us 50/hr, a high pressure hose and 3 litres of bleach, it'll be done in no time...u are beaten before you have tried (are u a pom?) ;D
shit doesnt stick to just blankets after all eh?
-
nah but blankets fling it well
-
While i suppose it makes sense to save gigs for 'good occasions' its means that you're gonna have to work much harder at promoting your band and releases. If you limit your gigs then the amount of people 'familiar' with your songs could potentially drop.
-
nah but blankets fling it well
ah see, see.
Fling the blankey.
kinda like spin the bottle, but with a blanket? :hmm:
-
..u are beaten before you have tried (are u a pom?) ;D
huh? I am... why
-
go on then. get scrubbing.
oooh you mean you wanna be the one stood there sayin they missed a spot, not the one doing the scrubbing.
That's what leadership is all about!
Im a building supervisor.... thats pretty much my job ;D
-
..u are beaten before you have tried (are u a pom?) ;D
huh? I am... why
ah nothing...good times! ;D
-
It comes down to the old saying: "less is more"
-
i agree more or less. :P
-
Dead for a week then you had to open your yappers.
-
cold as ice
-
Dead for a week then you had to open your yappers.
ha ha ha, i am trying to change my ways. ::)
-
I haven't read all 22 pages of this thread but started off at the beginning and found some great points.
I went to Melbourne on work the other week and decided to go early to see a 'local' eastern states show with the 'big names'
The line up was
LORD
Dreadnaught
Frakenbok
Toehider
Septerrus
It was at the Corner hotel (Melbourne's 'capitol'?) and seeing as Lord were flying in from Sydney and the other bands are pretty big I expected to be blown away to some degree..
What I found was that most CD launches at the Amplifier have a much bigger and better turn out and crowd response than this gig. The only reason why the gig might have been smaller than usual is the storm that happened a few hours earlier.. Lord almost didn't make it as their plane was diverted to the ACT.
There might have been 300 payers max but the mosh put was VERY lame for all the bands.
Don't forget Melbourne has a population of 4 million, where Perth is 2 Million!! ???
-
pretty interesting observation...given what normally si the cse...a good example of why its relative numbers, not whole figures which give any meaning to these stats
-
Also, there was some debate about beer prices. I thought about ringing up the Swan Basement to find out what their 'beer special' is and to chuck it on the flyer.. but someone told me Colon Barnett made that illiegal?
FYI:
His Cheap Beer in Perth Facebook group provides each follower with the discount details they want when deciding where to go out for a pint.
He has put together a list of the 10 best pubs in Perth offering cheap beers.
The Como
Often offers monthly specials, such as $6.50 pints of Dry Dock, Carlton Draught or Pure Blonde or $7 pints of Wahoo, or $5 bottles of beer, such as Sol.
Rosie O'Grady's - Fremantle
Irish pubs are often good for beer specials. Thursday nights at Freo are usually when you get a pint of some description for under $7.
Rosie O'Grady's - Northbridge
Offers $6.80 for some pints on Sundays; also other days of the week.
Paddy Maguire's
Been known to offer $6.50 pints of Guinness.
Balmoral
Pretty much offers the same deals as the Como.
The Elephant & Wheelbarrow
$6.50 pints on Thursdays.
Broken Hill Hotel
Was surprised to see them offering a few dollars off Matilda Bay pints the other week - only $8 each for a change, instead of the $9.70 to $10.50 you can usually pay.
Bar 138
Offers $5 pints during happy 5pm-6pm Mon-Thur.
Fenian's
You can often get $6 pints of Guinness here, depending on the time of year.
Your local RSL or bowling club
"Mick Molloy's inspiration for Crackerjack came about purely because he was taking advantage of the cheap beer prices in his local bowling club," Mr Thomas said. "Prices can end up being much, much cheaper in these places. Plus you get to meet a few characters."
-
Revolution Sports 4.50 a stubbie of full strength piss
-
I'm all over it. Got soccer tonight then will celebrate the win a few st paddies day brews :headbang:
-
i forgot to wear green :-[