Western Front Forum
Professional Services => Sound Advice => Topic started by: goat on February 18, 2010, 05:56:44 AM
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Not sure where to put his so here will do i guess.
Can some of the drummers here give me an indication as to what their top end kick drum speed is?
Im looking at doing a song with parts at 230/234bpm. kick drum.
Ive already written the part and can hear that its fuckn smokin, but i wanna be able to tell my drummer he has to match it.
Just wanna know if its realistic or not. He's up over the 200 now, but could be pushing it.
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I know of only maybe 2 people in Perth who can get to that speed.
I float around the 210 mark, and marginally faster for gigs :) but I kick em hard, with no triggers.
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Same as Damo - around 210 these days, been doing the double-kick thing for almost 3 years. And I don't tap like a bitch either.
And yes, tell your drummer 230/240 is indeed doable. Maybe one day I can get there ... *looks to horizon*
But one thing - how long are those parts? 1 measure, 2? Or even half of that? If he's "floating" at those speeds, it's not like many punters will notice.
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Depends how confident you are in your drummer, as Damo said there would only be a handful locally that would do it comfortably, that is - without making it sound like a dogs dinner.
I have no idea what my top speed is, i don't really care to be honest.
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Ash largeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...come on down!!!
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Not sure where to put his so here will do i guess.
Can some of the drummers here give me an indication as to what their top end kick drum speed is?
Im looking at doing a song with parts at 230/234bpm. kick drum.
Ive already written the part and can hear that its fuckn smokin, but i wanna be able to tell my drummer he has to match it.
Just wanna know if its realistic or not. He's up over the 200 now, but could be pushing it.
Without placing a note value on the kick pattern, there is no answer to your post. Id think most drummers who own a double kick can play eight notes at 230 bpm, while some might be able to play sixteenth notes at 230bpm with limited power. How long does the kick part go for, because when you have to play that fast it's not a musical exercise it's a physical one and fatigue sets in real fast without the aid of triggers.
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mmm, thanks dudes, i appreciate this info. Im using EZDrummer to write this thing, so far the tempo in cubase is sitting at 120bpm, so im assuming kicks @ 16's will be at 240 yeah? Im not sure its totally accurate. anyway was going to slow it down somewhat to 115 or 117 ha ha ha. i guess at that speed even a few B'spm will make it easier.
Same as Damo - around 210 these days, been doing the double-kick thing for almost 3 years. And I don't tap like a bitch either.
And yes, tell your drummer 230/240 is indeed doable. Maybe one day I can get there ... *looks to horizon*
But one thing - how long are those parts? 1 measure, 2? Or even half of that? If he's "floating" at those speeds, it's not like many punters will notice.
we're talking one bar. 2 of the same one bar actually but with a break. but one is a blast beat, so not sure they have the 16's doubles undernieth the the snare if the snare is doing 16's also. Do the kicks go down to 8's in that instance? while the snare goes mad there?
Not sure where to put his so here will do i guess.
Can some of the drummers here give me an indication as to what their top end kick drum speed is?
Im looking at doing a song with parts at 230/234bpm. kick drum.
Ive already written the part and can hear that its fuckn smokin, but i wanna be able to tell my drummer he has to match it.
Just wanna know if its realistic or not. He's up over the 200 now, but could be pushing it.
Without placing a note value on the kick pattern, there is no answer to your post. Id think most drummers who own a double kick can play eight notes at 230 bpm, while some might be able to play sixteenth notes at 230bpm with limited power. How long does the kick part go for, because when you have to play that fast it's not a musical exercise it's a physical one and fatigue sets in real fast without the aid of triggers.
ha ha, yeah man, it definately doesnt sound like a musical excersise, that's what i love about it. In EZdrummer i turned down the velocity to match what you'd excpect a drummer to be belting them at. it sounds very convincing indeed.
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As for the bpm, obviously it doesnt have to be smack on the money. hell im not sure we can even do it to be honest.
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Well if it's one bar, then I suppose the more you guys play that song at rehearsal, your drummer will eventually be able to nail that part the more he plays it. Alternatively, you can just drop that part down to 8th-note triplets (so at 230BPM, that'd be the equivalent of 16ths at 172BPM or so), which would sound more feasible at this point. From 200, pushing to 230/240 can take up to, and sometimes even over, a whole year to achieve comfortably. And, it's not like the majority of punters can tell the difference between 8th-note triplet and 16th-note double kick anyway, much less at those speeds.
As for the blast beat, what sort of blast is it? If it's just a regular blast as opposed to a double-bass one, a lot of drummers here 2-foot the 8th-notes rather than playing them all with one foot.
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yeah well, really ya cant hear them under the 16's snare, and like ya said for sure will proly go the 2 foot way, why wouldnt ya really?
Unless you get that good and you get bored with the 2 foot. anyway it aint me drumming. i lowered the tempo to 230 too.
there is a double kick bit right after the blast now so we'll see how he goes with it.
i dont give a fuck its going in there no matter. ha ha
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yeah well, really ya cant hear them under the 16's snare, and like ya said for sure will proly go the 2 foot way, why wouldnt ya really?
Unless you get that good and you get bored with the 2 foot. anyway it aint me drumming. i lowered the tempo to 230 too.
there is a double kick bit right after the blast now so we'll see how he goes with it.
i dont give a fuck its going in there no matter. ha ha
Personally I prefer the 1-footed approach to blasting, but can currently only do that to 210-215 or so (220 on a REALLY good day). Either way is valid, really.
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yeah well, really ya cant hear them under the 16's snare, and like ya said for sure will proly go the 2 foot way, why wouldnt ya really?
Unless you get that good and you get bored with the 2 foot. anyway it aint me drumming. i lowered the tempo to 230 too.
there is a double kick bit right after the blast now so we'll see how he goes with it.
i dont give a fuck its going in there no matter. ha ha
Personally I prefer the 1-footed approach to blasting, but can currently only do that to 210-215 or so (220 on a REALLY good day). Either way is valid, really.
cool brother, so i can come hit you up for some tracks when i do a side project eh? :eyebrows:
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Also keep in mind that you are going to have virtually no note definition at that tempo without triggers - particularly through a PA in perth clubs.
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Also keep in mind that you are going to have virtually no note definition at that tempo without triggers - particularly through a PA in perth clubs.
Yeah pretty much..
All about what is applicable i suppose.
Anyway, not that it matters what your max speed is.
My band has some fast parts. I can play them.
Meh!?
If you ever got famous playing drums, i doubt you would ever need to play that fast :P
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Unless youre getting famous for playing fast, like George Kollias :)
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yeah, well it wasnt really about how fast anyone could play, i just wrote some cool riffs that only really worked at 117/115 at the least so, basicly the doubles needed are fast.
if they cant be done then basicly i either drop the whole song, or drop the doubles altogether. it sounds fucking kick ass though, so i will have to work something out.
the blast beats with the single kick underneith might just have to do. In fact im leaning towards it now.
They sound brutal, but i just wanted the double kicks as a variation.
things is im not 100% its actually at 230bpm because i cant get my metronome to work in cubase. im just going by what it says
on the tempo in cubase.
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Like I said, he can play the notes as triplets rather than 16ths, doesn't mean you have to drop the song if he can't do it.
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It's not like metal drummers these days actually play what is on record so just fucken fake it like everyone else does!
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Like I said, he can play the notes as triplets rather than 16ths, doesn't mean you have to drop the song if he can't do it.
I have nothing to add. Just wanted to say way to go with the Jim Gillette avatar.
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What the hell are you doing on here? Come fix my computer ya bum!
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As much as I love fast music, I've stopped playing it in the last few months. I've found more enjoyment in working on becoming a more dynamic drummer and practising other types of drumming, which can then be incorporating into whatever direction I choose to take.
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im doing it all.
slower, dynamic, old schoolish, completley off the chart fast and hard.
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As much as I love fast music, I've stopped playing it in the last few months. I've found more enjoyment in working on becoming a more dynamic drummer and practising other types of drumming, which can then be incorporating into whatever direction I choose to take.
Ditto.
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As much as I love fast music, I've stopped playing it in the last few months. I've found more enjoyment in working on becoming a more dynamic drummer and practising other types of drumming, which can then be incorporating into whatever direction I choose to take.
+2
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As much as I love fast music, I've stopped playing it in the last few months. I've found more enjoyment in working on becoming a more dynamic drummer and practising other types of drumming, which can then be incorporating into whatever direction I choose to take.
mmm, there's alot of that with metal drummers, the fact that people go fuckn mad head on into the fast stuff without doing the hard yards first.
ie; getting know all the fundamentals.
you can go nuts on the fast shit all you want, drums, guitar, vocals, whatever, but at the end of the day you'll always be missing something.
im not even gonna go on about it.
there was talk in another thread here, someone saying "maybe your music isnt as good as you think it is" etc.
Well, this again is the same thing.
walking before youre crawling, or flying before youre dribbling in this case.
what makes anyone think they can write shit as good as the masters (that everyone seems to thing are lame) that takes fucking years to get right, (not mention the producers)in the first 2/3 years of jamming or writing?
this is a BIG problem, in the sense, no cunt can see it when they are in that position.
alot more humbleness is needed. who really wants, in all seriousness, to finally land their "fantasy girl".
Where do you go after that?
You need to think "yeah, im alright, but i got along way to go"
there's a whole fuck load that think they already beyond that. ha ha ha, fuck me. :no:
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like ya said for sure will proly go the 2 foot way, why wouldnt ya really?
Because that's cheating~~~~!! :P
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That last post of mine does make sense, if youve had 6 pints, ha ha ha, mmm yeah well. :-[ :P
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210-220 is about my 'live' average.
230-240 when im practicing on the electronic, most days
Anything acheived above that; i cannot maintain as i can't put in the amount of practice required to 'stay there'.
Any fast blasting sections (260-280); im only playing triplets :-[ :-X :D
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210-220 is about my 'live' average.
230-240 when im practicing on the electronic, most days
Anything acheived above that; i cannot maintain as i can't put in the amount of practice required to 'stay there'.
Any fast blasting sections (260-280); im only playing triplets :-[ :-X :D
Really? thats pretty cool man.
how cool would it be to be playing around the traps full time?? think of how much better one would get.
What band do you play for mate?
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how cool would it be to be playing around the traps full time?? think of how much better one would get.
Meh, not necessarily, sadly.
I play out a lot and unless youll find you advance in some things, but also fall behind with other things, depending on your time constraints.
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What band do you play for mate?
If you ain't heard NEXUS, you ain't heard THE BEST!!
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how cool would it be to be playing around the traps full time?? think of how much better one would get.
Meh, not necessarily, sadly.
I play out a lot and unless youll find you advance in some things, but also fall behind with other things, depending on your time constraints.
oh, yeah Damo, this is definatley the truth. Ya get so caught up doing a certain style then all of a sudden you realize how rusty you've gone in other areas.
Doing yer own stuff though, you play that style long enough, youre gonna be rippin out some pretty ferkin evil stuff after 5 years or so.
What band do you play for mate?
If you ain't heard NEXUS, you ain't heard THE BEST!!
Not sure i have mate, where can i get a demo?? I have heard of em, just dont recall any of the music.
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Not sure i have mate, where can i get a demo??
78s, Planet, DaDa etc. have their CD 'The Paradise Complex' (which is far from demo quality)... Worth every penny ;)
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cooooellll, cheers, will look into it for sure.
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Or better yet check em out at their next gig. Actualy they had a gig last night at the rocket room. :-[