Western Front Forum
General => International => Topic started by: chancellorisgod on June 30, 2010, 01:38:42 AM
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Seems Nergal has been let off his blasphemy charges!
http://www.metalunderground.com/news/details.cfm?newsid=57328
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I was expecting so much more from this thread title.
Pretty glad it didn't happen though I will admit.
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Whats wrong with tearing up a bible?
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I was expecting so much more from this thread title.
Haha yeah I named it with the double-entendre in mind :P
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Whats wrong with sprogging on a bible?
fixed to suit thread title
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Whats wrong with tearing up a bible?
It's more a case of obeying the laws of the country you are touring in.
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He probably got off by pleading temporary insanity...and had some pics to back it up:
Exhibit A:
(https://www.wf.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fm.onet.pl%2F_m%2Fa3e204e6eb3eff2e67b9b53b5902d376%2C21%2C1.jpg&hash=1d484cf5f64aa9cd1e475a4e37dbb11e14ee4e9d)
Exhibit B (the clincher):
(https://www.wf.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fm.onet.pl%2F_m%2Fe307a7becc948dfaa72558afb1d8b977%2C21%2C1.jpg&hash=187e1db51af48041d1e15f449bfd7c42afc1ecc3)
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Da fuck?? Are they legit photos?? or a look alike?
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Whats wrong with tearing up a bible?
It's more a case of obeying the laws of the country you are touring in.
??? obey nothing!!! what happened to freedom of speach aye, oh thats right its only if you say and do EVERYTHING by the law and dont offend anyone or upset anyone or disrespect anyone then your freedom is allowed. From how i see it tearing up the bible is his freedom, and any sort of on stage antics like that should be seen for what it is - on stage antics and should never been arrested. Whatever country he was in is surely knows what "entertainment purposes" is. But i guess they'd rather sensationalise the SATANIC act that this envokes and fight their losing battle.
Surely we've moved past this sort of offence in todays world
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Whats wrong with tearing up a bible?
It's more a case of obeying the laws of the country you are touring in.
??? obey nothing!!! what happened to freedom of speach aye, oh thats right its only if you say and do EVERYTHING by the law and dont offend anyone or upset anyone or disrespect anyone then your freedom is allowed. From how i see it tearing up the bible is his freedom, and any sort of on stage antics like that should be seen for what it is - on stage antics and should never been arrested. Whatever country he was in is surely knows what "entertainment purposes" is. But i guess they'd rather sensationalise the SATANIC act that this envokes and fight their losing battle.
Surely we've moved past this sort of offence in todays world
He was in Poland - which happens to be his home country, no?
Anyway now it's been thrown out people are free to tear up as many bibles as they want.
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Whats wrong with tearing up a bible?
It's more a case of obeying the laws of the country you are touring in.
??? obey nothing!!! what happened to freedom of speach aye, oh thats right its only if you say and do EVERYTHING by the law and dont offend anyone or upset anyone or disrespect anyone then your freedom is allowed. From how i see it tearing up the bible is his freedom, and any sort of on stage antics like that should be seen for what it is - on stage antics and should never been arrested. Whatever country he was in is surely knows what "entertainment purposes" is. But i guess they'd rather sensationalise the SATANIC act that this envokes and fight their losing battle.
Surely we've moved past this sort of offence in todays world
Not familiar with Sudan?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudanese_teddy_bear_blasphemy_case
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Whats wrong with tearing up a bible?
It's more a case of obeying the laws of the country you are touring in.
??? obey nothing!!! what happened to freedom of speach aye, oh thats right its only if you say and do EVERYTHING by the law and dont offend anyone or upset anyone or disrespect anyone then your freedom is allowed. From how i see it tearing up the bible is his freedom, and any sort of on stage antics like that should be seen for what it is - on stage antics and should never been arrested. Whatever country he was in is surely knows what "entertainment purposes" is. But i guess they'd rather sensationalise the SATANIC act that this envokes and fight their losing battle.
Surely we've moved past this sort of offence in todays world
Not familiar with Sudan?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudanese_teddy_bear_blasphemy_case
exactly the backwards thinking crap i was talking about. and look at the state of sudan too. hopefuly they all die out soon fighting their "Holy Wars". and poland and some of the eastern europe countrys still are heavily brainwashed christian run countries.
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From how i see it tearing up the bible is his freedom,
and poland and some of the eastern europe countrys still are heavily brainwashed christian run countries.
Is showing respect "brainwashed" and a denial of freedom? Tearing up something which many people hold dear is certain to get a back lash. It's akin to burning a countries flag, or setting a sporting team's jersy on fire. You're bound to piss someone off, and yuo know very well what sort of reaction you'll be getting when you do it.
As for "freedom". Where would you draw the line between freedom and anarchy. What else should musicians be allowed to do on stage? Unless a law is morally wrong (IMO a fair number of Sharia Law rules are), you follow the laws of the country you are in. It's part off the agreement of you being able to live/travel there.
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you earn respect, you dont fear monger respect most of these countries still very much fear monger their people with this dear book. so ripping it up is a statement against the fear and primitive doctrine within its pages. ripping it up is an expression of ones own freedom. there is no freedom within those pages.
As for anarchy (like Metal for the most part) is someones will to do anything with or without fear. metal draws many elements from anarchy but its up to the individual to draw the line, and sadly most outside metal circles arent free thinking people so in my opinion have no line to speak of so miss use their freedoms.
im not intending to have a go my friend just a discussion
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Whats wrong with tearing up a bible?
It's more a case of obeying the laws of the country you are touring in.
??? obey nothing!!! what happened to freedom of speach aye, oh thats right its only if you say and do EVERYTHING by the law and dont offend anyone or upset anyone or disrespect anyone then your freedom is allowed. From how i see it tearing up the bible is his freedom, and any sort of on stage antics like that should be seen for what it is - on stage antics and should never been arrested. Whatever country he was in is surely knows what "entertainment purposes" is. But i guess they'd rather sensationalise the SATANIC act that this envokes and fight their losing battle.
Surely we've moved past this sort of offence in todays world
He exercised freedom of speech in breaking the law and tearing up the Bible. The authories then expressed their freedom of speech in charging him with blasphemy or whatever it was. He did it to get a negative reaction. He just happened to get a stronger reaction than he was expecting and suddenly everyone has to get outraged because of it. If you set out to piss people off, be prepared for people to be pissed off. Don't have a cry about it when it's what you wanted.
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im not intending to have a go my friend just a discussion
Yeah, that's cool. I am slightly biased in this discussion though ;)
I wonder if he tore up a Catholic Bible or just a 'regular' protestant one, seeing as his beef was specifically with the Roman Catholic Church. Those bibles are harder to find, at least in Australia anyway.
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manson did the same on the dead to the world tour and he said himself that he was expecting to get in the shit for it. i dont think that Nergal he was expecting to get that sort of reaction tho.
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I dont have a problem with him tearing up a bible or with him getting in trouble for it, obviously its what he set out to do. But your getting "Freedom of speech" carried away if you think he should be able to do anything on stage...so he could just say...Put on a white hood and burn some black guy on a cross? Its not racisit its artistic right?
Also Behemoth are hilarious.
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not "anything" on stage but what is done by some is highly questionable at times. my point was the fact he was arrested or charged in his own counrty for ripping up a bible is highly questionable. also if you did kkk the fuck out off it one night you'd definatly get a backlash a well deserved one at that.
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my point was the fact he was arrested or charged in his own counrty for ripping up a bible is highly questionable. also if you did kkk the fuck out off it one night you'd definatly get a backlash a well deserved one at that.
Aside from the murder, how is putting on KKK gear any different to ripping up a bible, in terms of freedom of speech? With one, you're showing your opinion towards Christianity, with the other you're showing your opinion towards non-whites. (Uness you actively get involved in any lynchings) you're not physically hurting anything with either action. However, both have a considereable psychological effect on people. Both are highly offensive to some, yet they should both fall under "freedom of speech" should they not? Why do you see them as different?
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kkk is red neck christians
ripping up a bible is anti christian.
and no freedom of speach isnt just anti christian statements.
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Freedom of speech is bullshit, because nintey nine percent of people don't have anything to say worth listening to.
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no you dont do you ^^
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kkk is red neck christians
Redneck maybe, Christian no. Or at least, as warped a version of it as the Westborough Baptist Church. If one belives God created all humans equally, they can't also hold the same ideals as the KKK. The two are opposites.
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no you dont do you ^^
OH NO HE DI'ENT!
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Da fuck?? Are they legit photos?? or a look alike?
Legit dude haha
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Da fuck?? Are they legit photos?? or a look alike?
Legit dude haha
You're gonna have to elaborate on this now mate. :)
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you earn respect, you don't fear monger respect most of these countries still very much fear monger their people with this dear book. so ripping it up is a statement against the fear and primitive doctrine within its pages. ripping it up is an expression of ones own freedom. there is no freedom within those pages.
+1
I believe religion in general is oppression. There are no morals. There is only perception. There are people and organisations who seek to filter and control this perception to advantage their own agenda. This includes all religions and organisations. Advertising is a perfect example. You need this product!
And for the record, Christopher Hitchens is one of my hero's. The guy has balls, considering that Nergal only ripped up a bible for the purposes of entertainment.
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kkk is red neck christians
Redneck maybe, Christian no. Or at least, as warped a version of it as the Westborough Baptist Church. If one belives God created all humans equally, they can't also hold the same ideals as the KKK. The two are opposites.
um....... christian yes, a quote from a kkk dimwit:
America, Our Nation is Under Judgement from God!
"There is a race war against whites. But our people - my white brothers and sisters - will stay committed to a non-violent resolution. That resolution must consist of solidarity in white communities around the world. The hatred for our children and their future is growing and is being fueled every single day. Stay firm in your convictions. Keep loving your heritage and keep witnessing to others that there is a better way than a war torn, violent, wicked, socialist, new world order. That way is the Christian way - law and order - love of family - love of nation. These are the principles of western Christian civilization. There is a war to destroy these things. Pray that our people see the error of their ways and regain a sense of loyalty. Repent America! Be faithful my fellow believers. "
National Director of The Knights
Pastor Thomas Robb
they belive jesus is white too not an arab for jew-rusilum
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um....... christian yes, a quote from a kkk dimwit:
America, Our Nation is Under Judgement from God!
"There is a race war against whites. But our people - my white brothers and sisters - will stay committed to a non-violent resolution. That resolution must consist of solidarity in white communities around the world. The hatred for our children and their future is growing and is being fueled every single day. Stay firm in your convictions. Keep loving your heritage and keep witnessing to others that there is a better way than a war torn, violent, wicked, socialist, new world order. That way is the Christian way - law and order - love of family - love of nation. These are the principles of western Christian civilization. There is a war to destroy these things. Pray that our people see the error of their ways and regain a sense of loyalty. Repent America! Be faithful my fellow believers. "
National Director of The Knights
Pastor Thomas Robb
they belive jesus is white too not an arab for jew-rusilum
They don't deserve to be called "Christian", as they are not. "Love thy neighbour as thyself" is a key teaching in Christianity, and anyone who teaches hate towards people (as opposed to behaviours), is not speacking for the religion itself, but for their own agenda.
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from my experience the whole "love thy neighbour" thing only realy aplys from christians other christians.
Many human dont deserve to called humans but they are.
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from my experience the whole "love thy neighbour" thing only realy aplys from christians other christians.
Many human dont deserve to called humans but they are.
Sadly this is often the case, I wont argue with you about that. The Bible actually calls us to be more critical of other Chrisitans than of non-Christians, but a lot of people tend to forget about that part. People are stupid, and can screw anything up, even something as simple as "love thy neighbour". There is a gap between the ideals of Christianity and those who follow it, and it's easy to ge the two confused, as it's often the bad examples which gain more publicity.
Anyway, I'm sure we're boring everyone else on here. I'd be happy to continue this discussion at a gig sometime, or in PM.
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All those faggots are just using their faith as an attempt of justification for their ideologies. KKK, Islamic extremists, Irish terrorists, the pope, fucking Ahmedinijad the whole lot!
There are plenty of loopholes in the holy texts that can be interpreted as religious justification for abhorrent acts.
Those 95% that manage to follow a faith without shitting on human rights should be left alone.
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GG Allin had better stage antics. This guys just a poser.
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Yep, I was thinkin' of GG Allin's antics... heavy duty....
I think people should be free to rip up bibles if they please. It's a harmless form of expression.
It's not hard NOT to react with outrage upon seeing it, when you think about it.
Just let people do as they please.
Provided it's not senseless maiming or killing of course :P
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Might burn a bible using the australian flag as tinder, while addressing the audience in nothing but cantonese. The moral outrage might just spark some kind nationwide riot, which is a perfect excuse to loot myself a porsche and flatscreen.
It's so crazy it has to work.
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Might burn a bible using the australian flag as tinder, while addressing the audience in nothing but cantonese. The moral outrage might just spark some kind nationwide riot, which is a perfect excuse to loot myself a porsche and flatscreen.
It's so crazy it has to work.
I think you will find such a ridiculous act will leave people in hysterics more than outraged.
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You're forgetting THE CHILDREN and WORKING AUSTRALIAN FAMILIES. They'll be outraged for sure.
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You're forgetting THE CHILDREN and WORKING AUSTRALIAN FAMILIES. They'll be outraged for sure.
I think you should use all the outraged people as kindling. Heck, if you concentrate enough ignorance and misguided ire in one spot, you won't even need a match to get the fire started. You might as well even save burning the flag, because any idle object is worth more than the aforementioned ways of thought... I guess you can burn the bible/flag if you want to, but it's not going to matter, because all the jingoists and religious extremists would be incinerated!
I'll cry just one tear of joy when I feel the warmth of that fire burning out.
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You guys are ALL full of shit.
Atheists think they are so smart but in reality they have no more proof of their beliefs than Christians do. You are all just as brainwashed and part of a cult as you claim Christians to be, science is based on faith and not fact in any sense that Christianity is not, it is a religion as much as any other.
Why? Do you know the basic principles of science?
1. Use your experience: Consider the problem and try to make sense of it. Look for previous explanations. If this is a new problem to you, then move to step 2.
2. Form a conjecture: When nothing else is yet known, try to state an explanation, to someone else, or to your notebook.
3. Deduce a prediction from that explanation: If you assume 2 is true, what consequences follow?
4. Test: Look for the opposite of each consequence in order to disprove 2. It is a logical error to seek 3 directly as proof of 2. This error is called affirming the consequent.
What does this mean? All scientific conclusions are based on previous scientific conclusions. This is circular logic. You cannot prove something by using the very thing you are trying to prove as evidence. All scientific information is based on FAITH in science and has no logical proof behind it what-so-ever. You know who recognizes this? Almost every credible scientist you can think of that's who. It was pointed out by David Hume a philosopher and scientist one of the master minds behind quantum mechanics. The only people who ignore this are stubborn cult leaders like Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins.
I am sick of uneducated morons parading around acting as if they are superior because they are Atheists, your beliefs are no more credible than anyone else's. Not only do you have no understanding of logic and reason the majority have little to no understanding of the science they are claiming to be proof of their belief system.
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion mate, doesn't mean we're stupid.
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I never said you're stupid for believing in science. You are however stupid if you think you are superior to other religions because of it.
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I guess Im pretty stupid then. Oh well, tough shit. I'll live...
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Religion, science, morals, ethics, politics.
It's all bullshit.
Embrace nihilism.
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I have some leaning toward atheism.
Perception must precede everthing except whatever force allows that perception. There is no science, there is no religion, there is only perception.
chantian_deanie you are right, some people perceive themselves to be smarter or better than some one else because of religious views. But also political views, morals, race, social status, wealth, education, musical taste etc... But as Nihilist said it's all bullshit. I agree.
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You guys are ALL full of shit.
Atheists think they are so smart but in reality they have no more proof of their beliefs than Christians do. You are all just as brainwashed and part of a cult as you claim Christians to be, science is based on faith and not fact in any sense that Christianity is not, it is a religion as much as any other.
Why? Do you know the basic principles of science?
1. Use your experience: Consider the problem and try to make sense of it. Look for previous explanations. If this is a new problem to you, then move to step 2.
2. Form a conjecture: When nothing else is yet known, try to state an explanation, to someone else, or to your notebook.
3. Deduce a prediction from that explanation: If you assume 2 is true, what consequences follow?
4. Test: Look for the opposite of each consequence in order to disprove 2. It is a logical error to seek 3 directly as proof of 2. This error is called affirming the consequent.
What does this mean? All scientific conclusions are based on previous scientific conclusions. This is circular logic. You cannot prove something by using the very thing you are trying to prove as evidence. All scientific information is based on FAITH in science and has no logical proof behind it what-so-ever. You know who recognizes this? Almost every credible scientist you can think of that's who. It was pointed out by David Hume a philosopher and scientist one of the master minds behind quantum mechanics. The only people who ignore this are stubborn cult leaders like Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins.
I am sick of uneducated morons parading around acting as if they are superior because they are Atheists, your beliefs are no more credible than anyone else's. Not only do you have no understanding of logic and reason the majority have little to no understanding of the science they are claiming to be proof of their belief system.
However you perceive science, it s doing a whole lot more to help the human race than any religion ever did.
There's a whole lot more there ideally to be interested in.
Blind faith is old hat and cant be compared to science.
Fine, relgion brought us so far, thats the fuckn problem IMO.
I wanna see results if im to believe in anything, call me human, call me rational, call me a realist.
In the end i dont give a fuck enough to worry about it too much.
I would feel like a fool to believe in any religion based soley on stories and conjured up ideas from those on a powertrip or with psycological problems.
Thats just me. each to his own.
I dont think im better or smarter than anyone based on my beliefs or anything, its all perception as has been said.
That and no one likes a smart ass.
If we just take all the good bits from all the pies, we're gonna have one kick ass pie happening.
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Has anyone read SOPIES WORLD or ZEN AND THE ART OF MOTORCYCLE MAINTIANENCE?
These two books challenged and changed my views about life in ways that I had no comprehension of before I read them.
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Has anyone read SOPIES WORLD or ZEN AND THE ART OF MOTORCYCLE MAINTIANENCE?
These two books challenged and changed my views about life in ways that I had no comprehension of before I read them.
Read Sophie's World a few years back and had much the same experience with it, very enlightening and worth the read if you're that way inclined...
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You guys are ALL full of shit.
Atheists think they are so smart but in reality they have no more proof of their beliefs than Christians do. You are all just as brainwashed and part of a cult as you claim Christians to be, science is based on faith and not fact in any sense that Christianity is not, it is a religion as much as any other.
Why? Do you know the basic principles of science?
1. Use your experience: Consider the problem and try to make sense of it. Look for previous explanations. If this is a new problem to you, then move to step 2.
2. Form a conjecture: When nothing else is yet known, try to state an explanation, to someone else, or to your notebook.
3. Deduce a prediction from that explanation: If you assume 2 is true, what consequences follow?
4. Test: Look for the opposite of each consequence in order to disprove 2. It is a logical error to seek 3 directly as proof of 2. This error is called affirming the consequent.
What does this mean? All scientific conclusions are based on previous scientific conclusions. This is circular logic. You cannot prove something by using the very thing you are trying to prove as evidence. All scientific information is based on FAITH in science and has no logical proof behind it what-so-ever. You know who recognizes this? Almost every credible scientist you can think of that's who. It was pointed out by David Hume a philosopher and scientist one of the master minds behind quantum mechanics. The only people who ignore this are stubborn cult leaders like Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins.
I am sick of uneducated morons parading around acting as if they are superior because they are Atheists, your beliefs are no more credible than anyone else's. Not only do you have no understanding of logic and reason the majority have little to no understanding of the science they are claiming to be proof of their belief system.
Its not really a circular logic. There are two principles in science; laws and theories. Laws are universal and cannot be derived, like relativity. Theories are formed from observations of the real world, such as gravity or the model of the atom. Scientific models are built up around theories and make many predictions. As science progresses these predictions are put to the test and a lot of the time hold true, there is no faith involved in real world testing as you can actually see the results yourself to confirm your prediction.
And I can't find anything that links David Hume to quantum mechanics, probably because quantum mechanics didn't really come around until about 100 years ago.
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I'm curious as to where everyone gained their negative perspective religion. Just seems like a cool thing to be anti religious. Holy Rollers to cool for the trend though.
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I'm curious as to where everyone gained their negative perspective religion. Just seems like a cool thing to be anti religious. Holy Rollers to cool for the trend though.
Whether you believe it or not, I drew my own conclusions in regards to religion (and they aren't remotely influenced by the whole "being metal" charade, I've essentially held the same views for longer than I've been an active listener of music), and I probably had a bit of a head-start in the sense that my family didn't influence me religiously in any way. The earliest event I can recall that turned me off religion happened in year 5... I don't entirely remember what the class was masqueraded as, but basically it was a Christian "education" class, championed by the school chaplain, that took advantage of us kids' natural interest in Christmas/Easter/etc, to cram religious propaganda in to our minds. I found it extremely boring, confusing, and irrelevant to whatever I gave a crap about at that time, so I told my mother about this class, and she was outraged about the class, and had me withdrawn from it (this was at a public school, mind you).
In general though, my stance against religion is based on my own observations, and the conflict between my own philosophies/morals/ethics/worldviews, as well as my independent nature. I honestly see quite a bit of bad in religion (however the blame for wrong-doings lies purely on the individuals, not the religion), and extremists disgust me to the very core of my self, but I have no problem with the average believer who doesn't shove their beliefs in other peoples faces. It's their right to do what they will with their life... and yes, people who go around causing shit and attacking the religious types are JUST AS BAD as the extremists and holier-than-thou converters. I mean, attempting to convert someone in itself isn't so bad, it's more about the means than the end. Offering someone alternative viewpoints, and leaving the ball in their court is one thing, but harassing, condemning and threatening people is weak, immoral and deserves no tolerance.
EDIT: Just thought I'd mention that my mother holds her own spiritual views, and my father has become quite the religious type himself in the past years, and none of this has influenced me in the slightest.
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Its not really a circular logic. There are two principles in science; laws and theories. Laws are universal and cannot be derived, like relativity. Theories are formed from observations of the real world, such as gravity or the model of the atom. Scientific models are built up around theories and make many predictions. As science progresses these predictions are put to the test and a lot of the time hold true, there is no faith involved in real world testing as you can actually see the results yourself to confirm your prediction.
The laws of physics and of logic... the number system... the principle of algebraic substitution. These are ghosts. We just believe in them so thoroughly they seem real.
For example, it seems completely natural to presume that gravitation and the law of gravitation existed before Isaac Newton. It would sound nutty to think that until the seventeenth century there was no gravity.
So when did this law start? Has it always existed? What I'm driving at is the notion that that before the beginning of the earth, before the sun and the stars were formed, before the primal generation of anything the law of gravity existed. Sitting there having no mass of it's own, no energy of it's own, not in anyone's mind, because there wasn't anyone, not in space because there was no space either, not anywhere, this law still existed?
If that law of gravity existed, I honestly don't know what a thing has to do to be non-existant, it seems to me that the law of gravity has passed every test of non-existance there is. You cannot think of a single attribute of non-existance that the law of gravity didn't have. Or a single scientific attribute it did have. And yet is still common sense to believe that it existed.
I predict that if you think about it long enough you will find yourself going round and round and round until you finally reach only one possible, rational, intelligent conclusion. The law of gravity and gravity itself did not exist before Isaac Newton. No other conclusion makes sense.
And what that means is the law of gravity exists nowhere except in peoples heads! It's a ghost!
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Scientific laws are based on scientific observations and scientific observations are based on scientific laws. How is that not circular?
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Scientific laws are based on scientific observations and scientific observations are based on scientific laws. How is that not circular?
Saying that is all well and good but some science is just irrefutable dude, what about gravity?
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Well things seem to fall towards larger objects. Can you prove to me that it is caused by the force we call gravity and not by magic or by god. What's more can you prove to me that just because we have seen it happen before that it will happen forever?
For the record, I have FAITH in science and see it as the most believable belief system I have so far encountered, all I am saying is that logically there is no more proof for it than any other belief system.
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Scientific laws are based on scientific observations and scientific observations are based on scientific laws. How is that not circular?
Saying that is all well and good but some science is just irrefutable dude, what about gravity?
Gravity?!?!
Pfft, the earth is flat and you know that as well as I do.
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My strongest faith also lays in science, but...
Can you see gravity?
Can you taste gravity?
Can you feel gravity?
Can you hear gravity?
Can you touch gravity?
No! You cannot! You can only experience (perceive) it's effects. As I stated earlier there is nothing but perception and the force that allows perception (sometimes reffered to as quality).
The problem, the problem scientists are stuck with, is that of mind Mind has no matter or energy but they can't escape it's predominance over everthing they do. Logic exists in the mind. Numbers exist only in the mind. I don't get upset when scientists say that ghosts exist in the mind. It's that only that gets me. Science is only in your mind too.
Laws of nature are human inventions, like ghosts. The whole blessed thing is a human invention, including the idea that it isn't a human invention. The world has no existance outside the imagination. It's all a ghost, the whole world we live in. it's run by ghosts. We see what we see because these these ghosts show it to us. Ghosts of Moses and Christ and the Buddha and Plato and Descartes, and Rousseau and Jefferson and Lincoln and on and on. Isaac Newton is a very good ghost. One of the best, your common sense is nothing more than the voices of thousands and thousands of these ghosts.
(*Edit: Some of what I've said here is from ZEN AND THE ART OF MOTORCYCLE MAINTENANCE. Though I do hold it to be true as far as I can tell)
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Uhhh yeah sooo....
How about that guy tearing up a bible?
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About him, if it was against the law he should be punished because he knew it was and he did it anyway. If it was legal and they are just trying to bully him then good for him for being acquitted. Whether or not it should be against the law is besides the point.
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Yeah I don't think ripping up the bible is specifically against the law but it kinda falls under the charge of blasphemy I guess. From what I hear he got off on freedom of speech :)
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About him, if it was against the law he should be punished because he knew it was and he did it anyway. If it was legal and they are just trying to bully him then good for him for being acquitted. Whether or not it should be against the law is besides the point.
Yeah, maybe so, but it is still a stupid law... for brevity's sake, I'll say I "believe" in science... because I'm not an immature fuckwit, I couldn't care less if someone tore up a chemistry book in plain sight, ignited the shreds, and pissed on the embers... if anything, I'd find it funny, especially if they paid for it. Such stupid laws SHOULD be challenged by the individual. Call it progress.
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I was really hoping someone could seriously challenge my beliefs.
But yeah... No-one should be charged for destroying a bible.
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Not all laws make perfect sense but the law in general is there for a reason. You don't like the laws in place? Protest them legitimately. You know the law and break it on purpose you get what your deserve or what you wanted to get to prove your point. I don't do any drugs anymore but I find Australian drugs laws, especially those relating to marijuana foolish at best, however you walk up to a cop and blow smoke in his face you deserve to go to jail for it. Supposing for a second that the act of ripping up bibles was actually illegal in Poland (which it appears it isn't) this guy wasn't doing this shit in the privacy of his own home he was doing it in front of thousands of people he was rubbing his actions in the face of the law giving them no option but to crack down on him.
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Not all laws make perfect sense but the law in general is there for a reason. You don't like the laws in place? Protest them legitimately. You know the law and break it on purpose you get what your deserve or what you wanted to get to prove your point. I don't do any drugs anymore but I find Australian drugs laws, especially those relating to marijuana foolish at best, however you walk up to a cop and blow smoke in his face you deserve to go to jail for it. Supposing for a second that the act of ripping up bibles was actually illegal in Poland (which it appears it isn't) this guy wasn't doing this shit in the privacy of his own home he was doing it in front of thousands of people he was rubbing his actions in the face of the law giving them no option but to crack down on him.
Yeah, fair enough, I don't disagree with you entirely... however, on the account of blowing marijuana smoke in a police officer's (or anyone's) face, I'd consider that a breach of their personal security, freedoms and rights... downright rude if anything... unless of course they asked for some second hand smoke, or otherwise established that they don't mind. :p
I mean, do you think a cop is going to tolerate you blowing tobacco smoke straight in their face? So, in a sense, that argument is non-sequitur.
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Why should christian values be placed above the values of others in the law system? I want to take christians to court for telling me I'm going to hell for not worshipping their god. I find it offensive. This will not happen. So fuck christianity.
...for brevity's sake, I'll say I "believe" in science... because I'm not an immature fuckwit, I couldn't care less if someone tore up a chemistry book in plain sight, ignited the shreds, and pissed on the embers... if anything, I'd find it funny, especially if they paid for it.
:laugh:
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Why should christian values be placed above the values of others in the law system? I want to take christians to court for telling me I'm going to hell for not worshipping their god. I find it offensive. This will not happen. So fuck christianity.
...for brevity's sake, I'll say I "believe" in science... because I'm not an immature fuckwit, I couldn't care less if someone tore up a chemistry book in plain sight, ignited the shreds, and pissed on the embers... if anything, I'd find it funny, especially if they paid for it.
:laugh:
The laws of particular places will always be strongly influenced by the original religious system of an area, because if the majority of the inhabitants of the area will understand the laws and abide by them, as they correspond to their belief system. Using people's fears of religious wrath would have been the most effective way to keep the people in line.
In regards to what you were saying about the laws of nature, I don't agree that they are 'ghosts' things such as gravity, air and magnetic forces all exist. Even though we can't necessarily feel them with our own senses, we can observe their effects or observe their effects on other things. It is human nature to try to understand new information or phenomena, and to create a basis for this, items or phenomena have to be identified by identifying common characteristics and categorising them accordingly. New discoveries and theories are always being recognised and identified, as the universe is in a constant state of change. Sometimes it takes a tiny development in technology or even a brilliant mind to see it. These theories and ideas are always subject to change and alteration, with the gathering of information, but their existence and effects cannot be denied, regardless of whether they have been exhaustively defined and explained.
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Why should christian values be placed above the values of others in the law system? I want to take christians to court for telling me I'm going to hell for not worshipping their god. I find it offensive. This will not happen. So fuck christianity.
i had a run in with a work mate at midland brick years ago, (he being a christian and me not) He reported me for having a pentagram symbol on my keyring, he said it was very offencive to him and that i be fired for it. The dickhead bosses at the time said he had a point as far as worker satisfaction and happines within his job. So my arguement was that he had a cross on his necklace and it was offencive to me and if i was to be fired then he would have to be too. Neither of us were fired over it all. so i still find it amusing that they (christians) can get all upset about the smallest or non significant things and yet are just as hypocritical in their own actions?
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yet are just as hypocritical in their own actions?
I feel like such a hypocrite every time I wear (one of) my Mhorlg shirts. :P
Each person is different, everyone will find something to be offended about, it's not just confined to religion, or politics.
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yet are just as hypocritical in their own actions?
I feel like such a hypocrite every time I wear (one of) my Mhorlg shirts. :P
Each person is different, everyone will find something to be offended about, it's not just confined to religion, or politics.
religion and politics are the main offenders tho
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thing is in this case, he couldnt just live with the whole pentagram thing, he couldnt hold his discrimitive tounge and just work with his fellow man, he had to go, fucking completely over the top i might add, and go to that extreme as to try get him fired. what a wanker.
i wouldve fired him for shit stirring a happy work place.
Ihad a dude yeas ago at my work place, a born again, which a hundred times worse, telling me why i shouldnt be doing this or that, and arguing about it with me, i couldnt fucking believe it. There's gotta be something wrong with nobs like that.
In the end though he rubbed me up the wrong way about it and he started getting all shitty and started showing his true colours.
Fucking faker he was.
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i did start wearing my "jesus is a cunt" t shirt under my hiviz gear after awile and that got him realy worked up, but i was doin it knowing i could get into more trouble and wasnt a constructive move but i didnt care.
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yet are just as hypocritical in their own actions?
I feel like such a hypocrite every time I wear (one of) my Mhorlg shirts. :P
Each person is different, everyone will find something to be offended about, it's not just confined to religion, or politics.
I can put on whatever shirt I like. It's called freedom from religion.
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Why do I keep getting arrested when walking around Forrest Chase in the nud? I am an Indian holy man after all, and if you say I'm not you're clearly a fucking bigot.
Clothes ! = Religion.
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I'm curious as to where everyone gained their negative perspective religion. Just seems like a cool thing to be anti religious. Holy Rollers to cool for the trend though.
Whether you believe it or not, I drew my own conclusions in regards to religion (and they aren't remotely influenced by the whole "being metal" charade, I've essentially held the same views for longer than I've been an active listener of music), and I probably had a bit of a head-start in the sense that my family didn't influence me religiously in any way. The earliest event I can recall that turned me off religion happened in year 5... I don't entirely remember what the class was masqueraded as, but basically it was a Christian "education" class, championed by the school chaplain, that took advantage of us kids' natural interest in Christmas/Easter/etc, to cram religious propaganda in to our minds. I found it extremely boring, confusing, and irrelevant to whatever I gave a crap about at that time, so I told my mother about this class, and she was outraged about the class, and had me withdrawn from it (this was at a public school, mind you).
Scripture they called it. You basically wrote that paragraph for me, so thanks for saving me time. Exact same story as me... only I was grade 4 and my parents wrote a letter so I didnt have to attend scripture because I found it so insanely boring and didnt believe a word of it. Then I got the option to go and play games on this crappy old Amstrad computer, go to the library or play basketball. Of course, given the choices I had, many kids followed suit and by the end of the year I had a whole posse shooting hoops.
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Same here, dirty fucking c's.
How the fuck dare they? without consulting anyones families. Did they need to go to such lengths? Or did they just assume everyone wants to be a christian?
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I'm curious as to where everyone gained their negative perspective religion. Just seems like a cool thing to be anti religious. Holy Rollers to cool for the trend though.
Whether you believe it or not, I drew my own conclusions in regards to religion (and they aren't remotely influenced by the whole "being metal" charade, I've essentially held the same views for longer than I've been an active listener of music), and I probably had a bit of a head-start in the sense that my family didn't influence me religiously in any way. The earliest event I can recall that turned me off religion happened in year 5... I don't entirely remember what the class was masqueraded as, but basically it was a Christian "education" class, championed by the school chaplain, that took advantage of us kids' natural interest in Christmas/Easter/etc, to cram religious propaganda in to our minds. I found it extremely boring, confusing, and irrelevant to whatever I gave a crap about at that time, so I told my mother about this class, and she was outraged about the class, and had me withdrawn from it (this was at a public school, mind you).
Scripture they called it. You basically wrote that paragraph for me, so thanks for saving me time. Exact same story as me... only I was grade 4 and my parents wrote a letter so I didnt have to attend scripture because I found it so insanely boring and didnt believe a word of it. Then I got the option to go and play games on this crappy old Amstrad computer, go to the library or play basketball. Of course, given the choices I had, many kids followed suit and by the end of the year I had a whole posse shooting hoops.
Haha... yeah, I was given the option to use the school computers instead too. Hello, Wolfenstein 3D. I don't remember at the time why this information didn't leak and break the entire class to pieces, but the only students exempt from the class were myself, and a girl from one of the higher grades. Perhaps they were silencing us, because we discovered something better than religion, and they didn't want to lose their herd... kinda parallels to the 'ol suppression of science, back in the days. Or perhaps they were appeasing to the kids' senses by giving them free Easter eggs at each class. :P
But yeah, it is/was fucking rude to just put all the kids in that class, without alerting/asking parents first... whether they don't want their kids taught religion, or they want them taught a different one... the only people who should be making decisions for kids (until they can do so on their own), is their fucking parents.
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i had scripture classes from years 1 to 4 and i know thats where my unpleasant relationship with christianity started. the class did however only ever make me question it and i always walked away with more questions and the nuns who ran it never had the whole answer. (go figure) Being so young when i was in the classes it didnt and never has felt right.
Same here, dirty fucking c's.
How the fuck dare they? without consulting anyones families. Did they need to go to such lengths? Or did they just assume everyone wants to be a christian?
i'd say so.
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i had scripture classes from years 1 to 4 and i know thats where my unpleasant relationship with christianity started. the class did however only ever make me question it and i always walked away with more questions and the nuns who ran it never had the whole answer. (go figure) Being so young when i was in the classes it didnt and never has felt right.
Same here, dirty fucking c's.
How the fuck dare they? without consulting anyones families. Did they need to go to such lengths? Or did they just assume everyone wants to be a christian?
i'd say so.
Same here, i think i made up my mind that it was a load of shit within the first class of year 1.
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Wow. Since when did we use anti-realism philosophy to defeat science for argument's sake?
You may as well be telling me the sky is red because I can't prove it's not.
And Graham, gravity is a concequence of mass. Gravity exists once there is mass no the other way around. but unfortunately for science, the gravity argument is a terrible one since it's not really a law but a theory.
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Wow. Since when did we use anti-realism philosophy to defeat science for argument's sake?
You may as well be telling me the sky is red because I can't prove it's not.
And Graham, gravity is a concequence of mass. Gravity exists once there is mass no the other way around. but unfortunately for science, the gravity argument is a terrible one since it's not really a law but a theory.
Tell that to the poor little cunts in Looney Tunes that get pasted by grand pianos, anvils, and safes.
They'll tell you its as proof as youre gonna get. :P
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And Graham, gravity is a concequence of mass. Gravity exists once there is mass no the other way around. but unfortunately for science, the gravity argument is a terrible one since it's not really a law but a theory.
Haha. I think you misunderstand. I'm hardly concerned though. All is an illusion.
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And Graham, gravity is a concequence of mass. Gravity exists once there is mass no the other way around. but unfortunately for science, the gravity argument is a terrible one since it's not really a law but a theory.
Haha. I think you misunderstand. I'm hardly concerned though. All is an illusion.
oh, everything is here alright, we just dont see it all. Kinda like not bieng able to use all available strands of your DNA.
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Sorry, now I misunderstand you :-[
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we see things in the only way we can with the abilties we are given.
being able access more of our brain etc etc could really change the way we see things and even what we can see around us.
Its like putting Windows only software into a Mac, all the info is there no doubt, just the Mac doesnt see things in that code or whatever the fuck it sees things in.
The abililty for the Mac to read it though is there, it just needs the appropriate thingamajigs in the right whatsimadoosa's.
As for the DNA thing, there's plenty around online about it. There's all kinda sub levels to be accessed that we dont use, unactivated.
Depends what you believe in really.
http://www.dnaperfection.com/
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I can understand the first part of what you wrote. I believe our senses are filters to reality. Our sense lie to us. They give us an incorrect or false impression of our nature and we call this reality
There is an underlying form which we can cannot perceive.
I'll definately check out the DNA link you put up.
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$800 for a 'remote' Karmic Cleansing? Instantly cures Cancer?
So I need to pay this guy to activate my DNA so I can live beyond 2012? Haha... I don't think so. I read the whole page and it does raise some interesting points but it sounds like a scam to me.
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You guys gotta lay off the gear.
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You guys gotta lay off the gear.
or smoke more.
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So back on topic, sort of :
BEHEMOTH Frontman Rushed To Hospital; All Previously Announced Shows Cancelled - Aug. 8, 2010
According to reports in the Polish media, guitarist/vocalist Adam "Nergal" Darski of the country's greatest extreme metal export, BEHEMOTH, was rushed to the Gdansk Medical University Hospital to receive treatment for an undisclosed illness. Jaroslaw Burdek, manager of Darski's girlfriend, 26-year-old Polish pop singer Doda (real name: Dorota Rabczewska), reportedly said that Nergal had been ill for several days.
It was reported by Se.pl that Darski was taken to the hematology division of the Gdansk Medical University Hospital, although this has not yet been officially confirmed.
Hematology, also spelled haematology, is the branch of internal medicine, physiology, pathology, clinical laboratory work, and pediatrics that is concerned with the study of blood, the blood-forming organs, and blood diseases.
As a result of Nergal's illness, all of the band's previously announced shows ? including those in Russia and the Baltic states in September/October and the U.S. tour with WATAIN in November ? have been cancelled.
Nergal has posted a Polish-language message on BEHEMOTH's official web site in which he revealed that the "multi-stage treatment" for his condition can take up to "several months" to complete.
An official statement regarding Darski's illness is expected to be issued tomorrow (Monday, August 9).
Polish media reports regarding Nergal's hospitalization:
* Se.pl
* Fakt.pl
* Plotek.pl
:/
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$800 for a 'remote' Karmic Cleansing? Instantly cures Cancer?
So I need to pay this guy to activate my DNA so I can live beyond 2012? Haha... I don't think so. I read the whole page and it does raise some interesting points but it sounds like a scam to me.
not the best page to give you, sounds dodgey as hahaha, the interesting points tho are what i was getting at.
as for the cancer thing, i dont think modern medicine will be the first to crack it.
Grim if yer looking to read someting on this thats realy cool man, Google "MMS". Its used to purify dirty water but has been studied and was found to cure malaria almost overnight at first, then the more they tested it the more they discovered. will let you be the judge. I know someone that killed a skin cancer with it. True.