Author Topic: Tax and Tax returns for bands? (Read 9461 times)

memoriesofnam · « **on:** May 01, 2009, 01:15:55 AM »

Just wondering how many bands have an Abn (assuming most need one for gigs?), and how many submit a tax return at the end of the financial year?

What sort of things can you claim as a 'business expense'? Any accountants out there?

dparker · « **Reply #1 on:** May 01, 2009, 08:12:04 AM »

From what I've heard, musical equipment (amps, guitars, drums, etc including disposables like strings and skins) and even CDs can be claimed as a business expense.

memoriesofnam · « **Reply #2 on:** May 02, 2009, 04:57:00 AM »

I assumed that's the case - but wonder how many do? Is it simply a tax deduction, so you pay less tax per quarter when lodging BAS? Or are bands not bothering to lodge a quarterly BAS due to low 'income'?

memoriesofnam · « **Reply #3 on:** May 02, 2009, 07:10:10 PM »

Everyones clearly more worried about pig flu then getting money back on their guitars, cds, and artwork / design work

cyanide_christ · « **Reply #4 on:** May 02, 2009, 07:18:01 PM »

I'm more worried about what I'm going to do with my second stimulus package...oh wait I know what I'm going to do with it - pay off my large debt.

EvilElvis · « **Reply #5 on:** May 02, 2009, 09:11:52 PM »

Print some of this shit out:

Dementor · « **Reply #6 on:** May 02, 2009, 09:19:04 PM »

Quote from: EvilElvis on May 02, 2009, 09:11:52 PM

Print some of this shit out:

Republic credits are no good here.

Khariot_G · « **Reply #7 on:** May 02, 2009, 09:29:00 PM »

Quote from: EvilElvis on May 02, 2009, 09:11:52 PM

Print some of this shit out:

hells yeah! DARTH DOLLAR!!!

DamoESP · « **Reply #8 on:** May 03, 2009, 04:28:01 AM »

Quote from: cyanide_christ on May 02, 2009, 07:18:01 PM

I'm more worried about what I'm going to do with my second stimulus package...oh wait I know what I'm going to do with it - pay off my large debt.

Which wont stimulate anything. (though my $900 will go on studying costs so same deal..)

Stimulus package = worst idea ever....could be putting those millions of $$ into creating new local infrastructure, thus creating local jobs...and in turn..stimulating the economy....

DevolvedEmperor · « **Reply #9 on:** May 03, 2009, 06:27:09 AM »

Quote from: DamoESP on May 03, 2009, 04:28:01 AM

Quote from: cyanide_christ on May 02, 2009, 07:18:01 PM
I'm more worried about what I'm going to do with my second stimulus package...oh wait I know what I'm going to do with it - pay off my large debt.
Yep!

Which wont stimulate anything. (though my $900 will go on studying costs so same deal..)

Stimulus package = worst idea ever....could be putting those millions of $$ into creating new local infrastructure, thus creating local jobs...and in turn..stimulating the economy....

memoriesofnam · « **Reply #10 on:** May 03, 2009, 04:48:50 PM »

...so none of you claim anything as a business expense for your band then?

Jimmy_Mate · « **Reply #11 on:** May 03, 2009, 04:53:50 PM »

Speak to guy bell mate von enforce (Metalhawk on here).
They are set up as a company and claim certain (as in all legitimate) deductions.

Fuck the taxation dept - try and reclaim every cent you can. The less of your $ paid in tax, the better.

DevolvedEmperor · « **Reply #12 on:** May 03, 2009, 07:25:19 PM »

Quote from: memoriesofnam on May 03, 2009, 04:48:50 PM

...so none of you claim anything as a business expense for your band then?

I'm assuming a few proportion of bands don't have an ABN and most gig payments would be cash in hand anyway. Ie. they wouldn't pay tax. Surely not many local bands would make enough money so that even if they did pay tax it'd probably be an insignificant ammount.

Ormsby_Guitars · « **Reply #13 on:** May 03, 2009, 08:03:13 PM »

Quote from: DevolvedEmperor on May 03, 2009, 07:25:19 PM

Quote from: memoriesofnam on May 03, 2009, 04:48:50 PM
...so none of you claim anything as a business expense for your band then?
I'm assuming a few proportion of bands don't have an ABN and most gig payments would be cash in hand anyway. Ie. they wouldn't pay tax. Surely not many local bands would make enough money so that even if they did pay tax it'd probably be an insignificant ammount.

Yup, but most bands spend way more on gear, rehearsals, servicing, etc etc than they make performing. If you dont have an ABN, and take payments as cash, then you wont pay tax, but you cant claim back the GST and get the tax rebates. Losses can be rolled over from year to year (so when your income exceeds your expenditure, you can still avoid paying taxes), but you cant claim for stuff you purchased prior to getting an ABN.

One $3000 guitar (or 50 weeks of $60 rehearsal room hire, a bass, an amp, whatever) will get you back $272 (gst) at the end of the month/quarter/year and another $700-900 (tax return rebate, roughly, dependent on your actual financial situation) at the end of the financial year.

GST/ABN/TAX can be daunting at first. Once you learn the ropes though, and start actually running your band as a business, it's real easy. The tax department are extremely helpful, and will give you all the info you need to get the maximum returns back.

memoriesofnam · « **Reply #14 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:04:55 AM »

Cheers SOD and Perry!

Exactly what I was hoping for Ormsby, thanks!
To clarify why I was asking, is that many of the bands I've done artwork and design work for, don't claim anything back on tax. Bottom line being, if more local bands are aware of being elegible to claim money back on business expenses such as: artwork, guitars, rehearsing, cds, and so on, the more work those of us such as Ormsby, Soundworks / Apparel Direct, Ryan Felton, other photographers, my partner and I, and anyone else providing services to the local metal scene.

Cheers

DevolvedEmperor · « **Reply #15 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:17:38 AM »

I'm confuseded. Sounds like your getting very into the business Bman! We should have a chat and you can explain it all to me sometime!

Grim · « **Reply #16 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:58:50 AM »

Quote from: SOD on May 03, 2009, 04:53:50 PM

Fuck the taxation dept - try and reclaim every cent you can. The less of your $ paid in tax, the better.

Watch out for this guy! He sounds really pissed off! I wonder what would happen if he got short changed at Hungry Jacks?

dparker · « **Reply #17 on:** May 04, 2009, 09:48:51 AM »

Quote from: Grim on May 04, 2009, 05:58:50 AM

Quote from: SOD on May 03, 2009, 04:53:50 PM

Fuck the taxation dept - try and reclaim every cent you can. The less of your $ paid in tax, the better.

Watch out for this guy! He sounds really pissed off! I wonder what would happen if he got short changed at Hungry Jacks?

Haha, I could write a rant about high income earners who have a bone to pick with the tax department and centrelink reliants, etc... but I should spare it for when I am sober.

In short, don't get shitty at others taking a share of your "hard-earned", high-income (and thus high-taxed) coin, because these people's existence supports your ability to be earning aforementioned coin. If you remove the altar beneath a god, they're standing on the same earth the altar once was.

DevolvedEmperor · « **Reply #18 on:** May 04, 2009, 10:08:14 AM »

I can't blame bands for not registering as a business. I'm in the process of possibly setting up a small distro and trying to figure out what the hell and if i need it i and the tax site doesn't help at all

I'm more confused than when i started.

Need to do a 4 year uni course to figure this shit out!

Jimmy_Mate · « **Reply #19 on:** May 04, 2009, 03:35:19 PM »

Quote from: Grim on May 04, 2009, 05:58:50 AM

Quote from: SOD on May 03, 2009, 04:53:50 PM
Fuck the taxation dept - try and reclaim every cent you can. The less of your $ paid in tax, the better.

Watch out for this guy! He sounds really pissed off! I wonder what would happen if he got short changed at Hungry Jacks?

HAHA gray gray - getting short changed at HJ's pisses me off big time (not that it happens as im on em like a hawk if theyre one cent short in my change.... or give me a coke instead of a sprite), but above all nothing would piss me off more than if i was on the job and just before getting down and dirty i was told that MY SHOES FUCKING STINK AY!!!!

Quote from: dparker on May 04, 2009, 09:48:51 AM

Haha, I could write a rant about high income earners who have a bone to pick with the tax department and centrelink reliants, etc... but I should spare it for when I am sober.

In short, don't get shitty at others taking a share of your "hard-earned", high-income (and thus high-taxed) coin, because these people's existence supports your ability to be earning aforementioned coin. If you remove the altar beneath a god, they're standing on the same earth the altar once was.

OH YOU POOR, STRUGGLING, PENNILESS STUDENT AFTER READING YOUR PROFOUND WORDS IN YOUR POST ALL I CAN SAY IS - OH OHHHHHH I FEEL SO SORRY FOR YOUR POOR, STRUGGLING, PENNILESS ASS!!! HERE - PLEASE HAVE HALF THE $$$ I WORK FOR (12 HRS A DAY, 1400KM AWAY FROM HOME, WEEKS AT A TIME) SO YOU STUDY YOUR WORTHWHILE ARTS DEGREE, STUFF YOUR PIMPLY, SCABBY FACE WITH MACCAS, CASH UP THE CURTIN TAVERN AND SO GEORGE CAN BUY A NEW YACHT WITH THE INCREASED SALES IN KEBABS.

dparker · « **Reply #20 on:** May 04, 2009, 08:04:02 PM »

Quote from: SOD on May 04, 2009, 03:35:19 PM

Quote from: dparker on May 04, 2009, 09:48:51 AM
Haha, I could write a rant about high income earners who have a bone to pick with the tax department and centrelink reliants, etc... but I should spare it for when I am sober.

In short, don't get shitty at others taking a share of your "hard-earned", high-income (and thus high-taxed) coin, because these people's existence supports your ability to be earning aforementioned coin. If you remove the altar beneath a god, they're standing on the same earth the altar once was.

OH YOU POOR, STRUGGLING, PENNILESS STUDENT AFTER READING YOUR PROFOUND WORDS IN YOUR POST ALL I CAN SAY IS - OH OHHHHHH I FEEL SO SORRY FOR YOUR POOR, STRUGGLING, PENNILESS ASS!!! HERE - PLEASE HAVE HALF THE $$$ I WORK FOR (12 HRS A DAY, 1400KM AWAY FROM HOME, WEEKS AT A TIME) SO YOU STUDY YOUR WORTHWHILE ARTS DEGREE, STUFF YOUR PIMPLY, SCABBY FACE WITH MACCAS, CASH UP THE CURTIN TAVERN AND SO GEORGE CAN BUY A NEW YACHT WITH THE INCREASED SALES IN KEBABS.

Really? I totally appreciate that man... it's great that you've opened up and decided to be more conscious of everyone around you without totally missing my point.
Today, I'm going to eat three Egg McMuffin meals on the way to blowing my rent money at the Tav!

WarNick · « **Reply #21 on:** May 05, 2009, 04:20:10 AM »

Quote from: SOD on May 03, 2009, 04:53:50 PM

Speak to guy bell mate von enforce (Metalhawk on here).
They are set up as a company and claim certain (as in all legitimate) deductions.

Fuck the taxation dept - try and reclaim every cent you can. The less of your $ paid in tax, the better.

Standard Alan Bond response from any snob getting taxed 48c to the dollar.

Nosaj · « **Reply #22 on:** May 05, 2009, 06:21:53 AM »

Quote from: Dementor on May 02, 2009, 09:19:04 PM

Quote from: EvilElvis on May 02, 2009, 09:11:52 PM
Print some of this shit out:

Republic credits are no good here.

It's now the Empire and I don't think Vader gives a shit either way.

DevolvedEmperor · « **Reply #23 on:** May 08, 2009, 08:59:25 AM »

Quote from: Ormsby_Guitars on May 03, 2009, 08:03:13 PM

Quote from: DevolvedEmperor on May 03, 2009, 07:25:19 PM
Quote from: memoriesofnam on May 03, 2009, 04:48:50 PM
...so none of you claim anything as a business expense for your band then?
I'm assuming a few proportion of bands don't have an ABN and most gig payments would be cash in hand anyway. Ie. they wouldn't pay tax. Surely not many local bands would make enough money so that even if they did pay tax it'd probably be an insignificant ammount.
One $3000 guitar (or 50 weeks of $60 rehearsal room hire, a bass, an amp, whatever) will get you back $272 (gst) at the end of the month/quarter/year and another $700-900 (tax return rebate, roughly, dependent on your actual financial situation) at the end of the financial year.

Hmmm from what i have been reading no band would get the 10% credits back as you'd have to be earning over $75 000 and registered for GST, which i doubt any Perth band would make.

From what i can make out you don't even have to pay GST if u earn under $75 000 as a businee. At least thats what i can make out of all the jargon. If anyone wnats to clear it up that's be great

I. just. don't. get. it.

TnT · « **Reply #24 on:** May 08, 2009, 10:49:04 PM »

It's correct that you don't have to be registered for GST if you earn under a certain amount, but you can voluntarily anyway if you so wish, in which case you can claim back the GST amount that you spend on any goods and services for said business / entity.

Mago_Haydz · « **Reply #25 on:** May 08, 2009, 10:53:35 PM »

Quote from: DevolvedEmperor on May 08, 2009, 08:59:25 AM

Quote from: Ormsby_Guitars on May 03, 2009, 08:03:13 PM
Quote from: DevolvedEmperor on May 03, 2009, 07:25:19 PM
Quote from: memoriesofnam on May 03, 2009, 04:48:50 PM
...so none of you claim anything as a business expense for your band then?
I'm assuming a few proportion of bands don't have an ABN and most gig payments would be cash in hand anyway. Ie. they wouldn't pay tax. Surely not many local bands would make enough money so that even if they did pay tax it'd probably be an insignificant ammount.
One $3000 guitar (or 50 weeks of $60 rehearsal room hire, a bass, an amp, whatever) will get you back $272 (gst) at the end of the month/quarter/year and another $700-900 (tax return rebate, roughly, dependent on your actual financial situation) at the end of the financial year.
Hmmm from what i have been reading no band would get the 10% credits back as you'd have to be earning over $75 000 and registered for GST, which i doubt any Perth band would make.

From what i can make out you don't even have to pay GST if u earn under $75 000 as a businee. At least thats what i can make out of all the jargon. If anyone wnats to clear it up that's be great

I. just. don't. get. it.

It's $50,000 from my understanding.

DevolvedEmperor · « **Reply #26 on:** May 08, 2009, 10:58:59 PM »

Nah definitely 75 000. Read it a hundred times over the last week

TnT · « **Reply #27 on:** May 08, 2009, 11:04:37 PM »

Used to definitely be $50,000.. must have gone up with inflation. Either way not a bad thing and not too relevant.

Ormsby_Guitars · « **Reply #28 on:** May 09, 2009, 02:10:40 AM »

Yeah it went up to $75,000 a while ago. Regardless, that doesnt mean you CANT be registered, thats the limit at which if you go over it, you MUST be registered.

the majority of you all spend way more than your band's earn, and you're all throwing away good money by avoiding a tiny amount of paperwork.

DevolvedEmperor · « **Reply #29 on:** May 09, 2009, 02:13:45 AM »

Quote from: Ormsby_Guitars on May 09, 2009, 02:10:40 AM

Yeah it went up to $75,000 a while ago. Regardless, that doesnt mean you CANT be registered, thats the limit at which if you go over it, you MUST be registered.

the majority of you all spend way more than your band's earn, and you're all throwing away good money by avoiding a tiny amount of paperwork.

I've read through the site 5 times. It's confusing as fuck. I still don't understand. I can understand why bands don't bother.

Mago_Haydz · « **Reply #30 on:** May 09, 2009, 05:27:29 PM »

Quote from: DevolvedEmperor on May 09, 2009, 02:13:45 AM

Quote from: Ormsby_Guitars on May 09, 2009, 02:10:40 AM
Yeah it went up to $75,000 a while ago. Regardless, that doesnt mean you CANT be registered, thats the limit at which if you go over it, you MUST be registered.

the majority of you all spend way more than your band's earn, and you're all throwing away good money by avoiding a tiny amount of paperwork.

I've read through the site 5 times. It's confusing as fuck. I still don't understand. I can understand why bands don't bother.

I had about the same amount of knowledge as it sounds like you have and I opened a business that successfully turns over roughly a 1/4 of a million dollars a year. Its really not all that hard once you get into it.... and find a decent accountant.

Ormsby_Guitars · « **Reply #31 on:** May 09, 2009, 05:35:28 PM »

Yup, as confusing as hell until you actually do it. It takes me no more than about 45-60 minutes to do my three monthly accounting and filling out the BAS/PAYG statements. They even send you a little "working out sheet" to help you now.

If you need clarification on anything, just ring and speak to someone. You sometimes have to wait a little while to get through, but the tax office has to be the best government department ever... they are extremely helpful.

Hell, you can even just go into the office in Northbridge and sit down with someone to talk it all through.

memoriesofnam · « **Reply #32 on:** May 09, 2009, 06:07:03 PM »

The govt websites are totally useless. We did the NEIS program, and the WA info isn't even listed on there - so nobody knows it even exists; but that's another story.

There's also short courses available, which I think you get a discount for (or freebie) from registering something along the way, or maybe it was making an appt. with the SBDC? Was a while ago now, but vaguely remember something about a free tax course.

I'm looking into making a tax info sheet PDF for bands when I get the time... just wanted to test the waters to see how beneficial it would be

.
Cheers for the on-topic replies guys!

goat · « **Reply #33 on:** May 13, 2009, 02:32:16 AM »

you gotta spend money to make money in this system, but its fuckn worth it if you can get thru a year doing it right.

I gotta Business set up by my accountant so i can claim all my recording gear and amps n shit as depreciation.
This year im gonna find out how i can milk the fuck out of everything as much as possible. If that means faulking out a bit more next year or having to change some shit, i will.

Thinking bout the long road not the short.
you can really make something of it if you put in the time no doubt.

chantian_deanie · « **Reply #34 on:** May 15, 2009, 01:28:14 AM »

While we're on the subject, how can I properly invoice someone as a sole trader? Are there rules? (I'm an audio tech)

Edit: Never mind, downloaded e-record from the ATO site.

Mago_Haydz · « **Reply #35 on:** May 15, 2009, 02:21:15 AM »

Quote from: chantian_deanie on May 15, 2009, 01:28:14 AM

While we're on the subject, how can I properly invoice someone as a sole trader? Are there rules? (I'm an audio tech)

I assume you have an ABN. I found an invoice template on the microsoft website ages ago and use that. If you are registered for GST, you have to include that at the end. For example, you write in the services provided and the charge - say its $100 for the sake of easy numbers. At the bottom have a subtotal, then the GST component then the grand total...

subtotal - $100
GST (10%) - $10
TOTAL - $110

make sure you have your ABN, business name, address and any contact details on the invoice in a header, and usually at the bottom include your accepted payment methods. Also you must have written on there somewhere who you are charging for your services. That way they can claim it in the future too... after all, thats the whole point of an invoice. Create an invoice number, and keep them sequential as you do more. 0001 is always a good place to start, obviously. If you find one of the many invoice templates, its all fairly straight forward, just make sure you have included all the info I told you. Pretty easy. if you have any dramas, I'll email you one of my invoices and you can use that as a guide. hit me up in PM if you want.

TnT · « **Reply #36 on:** May 15, 2009, 03:44:46 AM »

Yep, and according to the ATO it has to say "Tax Invoice" on it.

chantian_deanie · « **Reply #37 on:** May 15, 2009, 03:51:18 AM »

Thanks a lot man, the program that I got from the ATO site covers all that information in the template seems simple enough just wasn't sure if I was missing anything I needed. Also might as well say while I'm here, if anyone is looking for an audio tech pm me, discount if you mention WF.

cyanide_christ · « **Reply #38 on:** May 15, 2009, 05:42:21 AM »

Just out of interest, what do you mean by Audio Tech? Like live operator? Recording engineer? System engineer?

chantian_deanie · « **Reply #39 on:** May 15, 2009, 07:52:36 AM »

Live operation, recording and production.

cyanide_christ · « **Reply #40 on:** May 15, 2009, 08:04:18 AM »

Cool. Yay for more metal soundies!

chantian_deanie · « **Reply #41 on:** May 15, 2009, 05:57:39 PM »

Haha yeah, now we just need more metal customers

memoriesofnam · « **Reply #42 on:** May 16, 2009, 05:45:14 AM »

Quote from: TnT on May 15, 2009, 03:44:46 AM

Yep, and according to the ATO it has to say "Tax Invoice" on it.

"Tax Invoice" if you're charging GST or "Invoice" if not, if I'm correct?

chantian_deanie · « **Reply #43 on:** May 16, 2009, 05:48:04 AM »

Well the ato program changes the header to say invoice if you don't select GST so I hope that's correct.

tekilla. · « **Reply #44 on:** May 21, 2009, 05:20:25 AM »

Quote from: memoriesofnam on May 02, 2009, 04:57:00 AM

I assumed that's the case - but wonder how many do? Is it simply a tax deduction, so you pay less tax per quarter when lodging BAS? Or are bands not bothering to lodge a quarterly BAS due to low 'income'?

That... makes no sense. Are we talking income tax or GST here? Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying, but... BAS Statements have nothing to do with low or high income. BAS Statements are used to report to the ATO the GST you received / paid during each quarter. That's if you are registered for GST. Which you are required to do if you are running a business and your annual turnover (income) exceeds $75k. If you carry on a business and your turnover is less than $75k per year, you can choose to register for GST, i.e. it is optional.