Club Laney Question

[Khariot_G]

hey all,

Ive got a Laney GH100S (basically the GH100TI). If you are a Laney user, you would know the sound - basically a really dark, british tone. Its a single channel, ECC's with EL34s.
I use a Randall XL cab with GT75's and Schecters / Les Paul.

NOW... i cant for the life of me find any info regarding switching the tubes over to 6L6s, and more importantly, what and how it sounds like with them in. I believe the VH100R's are 6L6's, but the overall circuitry is different - 2 channels, a drive switch, etc.

I would rate the sound of most amps with 6L6's in at half. Half of them either sound awesome, the other half way too fizzy.

Comments, feedback... thanks all 

[goat]

Dude i have no idea, but thats a fuckn great pic.

[cyanide_christ]

Not all amps are switchable between EL34 and 6L6 valves so it might not actually be possible.

[erecshyrinol]

The GH100S is bias switchable so that's no problem. I think Gavin wants to know if 6L6s would sound terribad or decent or perhaps awesome in the amp.

[cdtBEAST]

Just because it is bias switchable does not mean that it will work. El34's are a completely different tube design.
El34 & Kt77's can usually be interchanged.
6L6 & Kt88, Kt90 can usually be interchanged.

Most of the fizz you are hearing is due to the pre amp & preamp tube.
el34 based amps generate a LOT of their mid distortion through the power section & love being hammered with volume.
Maybe try using a set of KT77 tubes in it instead man.
Have a talk to Jim @ Blue Glow. I can send you his number.

What exactly are you hoping to achieve by swapping to 6L6 tubes anyway? If it is more headroom & less bark then the KT77 may be a better choice. If the amp has the bias range. 

[Archangel]

I'll meet you over at club Mesa to talk about how piss easy it is.   

[Khariot_G]

hahaha thanks for everything so far everyone,

this amp was actually designed WITH the switchable bias, theres a whole page on Tony Iommi's website that explains his history with Laney designing his signature amp. The GH100S is schematically the same as the GH100TI, just different faceplate and plastic corners instead of metal.
I might actually go back to that and read it again just incase i missed something... but basically the info I cant find is feedback from people who have used the 6L6's in them, and what it sounds like, if its poo or its good. I like the EL34's and the tone as is.... but could it be better...?

SimonCDT : would be good to get that number indeed, thanks dude!

Dude i have no idea, but thats a fuckn great pic.

wall of dooooooooooom

[Khariot_G]

so heres a section of that info off the Tony Iommi page... so what i missed was that its the 5881's.

"The next was the power amp section. The first decision was the type of output tube to use. The traditional British tube for the 50 watt and above amp head has always been the EL34. In the golden days of Mullard, this was the absolute classic tube. However, Mullard and the other top quality western European manufacturers had ceased production as the tidal wave of transistor technology swept the world in the sixties and seventies. By the early years of the 1990s, there was at one stage only one factory in the world making tubes, and this was in China. Quality was variable and at one stage the factory was reported to have dropped the EL34 from its production schedules due the demand for the 6L6 and other American style output tubes from the large US manufacturers.

Although there were large stocks of EL34s around and some Russian and eastern European factories starting up again, the British amp manufacturers were nervous and they started to look for alternatives. The closest of these was a tube called the 5881 which is heavy duty version of the 6L6. Marshall Amplification actually started using this tube as its standard issue in all new tube amps. I am informed by Pete Cornish that this tube is a Soviet design, very close to the 6L6 and could be used in combat jet aircraft, it being capable of performing at huge g forces! The EL34 is in fact notoriously delicate and very sensitive to mechanical shock. The 5881 however is extremely robust and electrically consistent.

This was the first test we had to make regarding the power amp section. As above, Tony and I would go along to the factory with a guitar and do A/B tests. Nice as the idea was though, the 5881 just didn't sound quite as good as the EL34. The 5881 has a harder, more brittle sound which would definitely suit some players, but not Tony. It was decided therefore to go with the EL 34 for Tony, but to include a bias switch on the back panel of the amp that would allow the user to choose either the EL 34 or the 5881 as the output tube."

http://www.iommi.com/page.php?id=17&sec=eq

[JohnnyC]

FWIW...i used to have a Laney GH50L which had 2x 5881's in it.
It didnt sound like poo...but i much preferred it with EL34s (had to rebias even thou there is a switch selector on the back)

the main diffrences i found RE the crunch/distortion tone were -

5881s - could use more preamp gain and still be smooth sounding, bigger and tighter low end...sounded good at low volumes, but when the amps master vol was cranked it wasnt as good as the EL34s

EL34s - sounded much nicer when the master vol was cranked and using less preamp gain, aggressive mid/high end but not piercing  (using greenbacks and V30s...which i prefered over the G12T-75 with this amp)
i used/prefer  a boost/TS in the front to tighten up the low end/add compression for leads and heavier stuff.

5881/6l6s sound much diffrent to EL34s when cranked (ever heard a cranked fender?) so keep in mind that my amp was a 50W and in theory, 4x 6L6 in your Laney would have more headroom, which is desirable for Loud preamp gain modern metal type amps.

Great amps...much prefer them to most modern Marshalls (for both clean and crunch/Lead) and i wished i still owned one.

[cdtBEAST]

6L6 & el34 tubes have less headroom, however they sound good when pushed into distortion.
5881, Kt77, KT88, KT90 all have bulk headroom. They are CLEAN & LOUD. 2 KT88's get an easy 90watts. All of these tubes do not sound good when pushed to distortion. The 77 88 & 90 are @ insane levels once distortion is reached, in fact you would be hard pressed to push to KT90's to distortion before blowing the speakers in a quad.

[JohnnyC]

6L6 & el34 tubes have less headroom, however they sound good when pushed into distortion.

Yes...but it is also dependant on the amp design/circuit.

5881, Kt77, KT88, KT90 all have bulk headroom. They are CLEAN & LOUD. 2 KT88's get an easy 90watts. All of these tubes do not sound good when pushed to distortion. The 77 88 & 90 are @ insane levels once distortion is reached, in fact you would be hard pressed to push to KT90's to distortion before blowing the speakers in a quad.

RE: headroom I was referring to the comparision of the GH50L, which used 2 power tubes , compared to the the OP's laney, which uses 4.

I don't know why you lumped the 5881s in with the KT's ?(unless you got it mixed up with another tube??? as that would make more sense)
5881s = 6L6WGB ,which are slightly different spec to the 6L6GC?which are also in some cases not interchangeable. (depending on the amp design)

This is also assuming that current modern productions are built to spec and even then I challenge anyone to honestly be able to hear the difference between a 23, 25 and 30W tube of the same "type"

[Khariot_G]

thanks SimoCDT & Johnny -

the answers i was looking for was in what JohnnyC said 2 posts up - basically a Laney user that has tried out both options of EL34s and 5881's.
thats interesting about the tighter bottom end with the 6L6, and very true about the EL34's when cranked. though i may have more headroom with 100watts, in the end i rather have the tube that copes with being pushed hard and maintains sweetspot mids. im not really a modern rectifier guy - i love the british warmth - provided it cuts and has enough gain to get a "metal" sound.

only difference here is ive got GT75's instead of 30's so i might need to try the head with a V30's cab and check out the tone.

[cdtBEAST]

You should try your head through my cab man. I have 2 Eminence Texas Heats & 2 Cannibas Rex speakers that can be split in their pairs or blended. I think you will like both of these speakers. If you do they are pretty easy to order in & replace the 75's in your current quad.